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Egon
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You mean they don't work? Or what?
Will this be tomorrow's transportation?
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You mean they don't work? Or what?
buickanddeere
Super Member
The fuel cell may very well work at a cost of investment , complexity plus R&D. Lead acid battery is rather simple and works at atmospheric pressure without noisy gas compressors.
Redneck in training
Elite Member
Problem of hydrogen is not making it but energy density. So far there is not viable hydrogen storage that would store amount of energy as in example tank of gas or diesel. Transportation is another problem but hydrogen can be produced locally.
Speaking about efficiency of electric cars. ICE delivers about 20% of energy in the fuel to the wheels but if you take into account energy spent by getting the hydrocarbon, refining it and delivering it it is much less. Tesla says electric car delivers about 60% of the grid power to the wheels, but it doesn't take into account efficiency of the power plant and other losses. I would estimate that the total efficiency of conversion from the hydrocarbon to the wheels of the electric car is at least double of the ICE. In addition there are no oil changes, and electric cars have much better aerodynamic than ICE of grid powered cars.
What I am saying it is significantly more energy efficient to burn hydrocarbon in the power plant and charge electric car than burning it in ICE.
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Egon
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You mean all operating fuel cells need a noisy gas compressor??
houstonscott
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Fuel cells were all the rage of the greens, then they found out the best fuel for a fuel cell was diesel. Then fuel cells went by the wayside. You see it's not about power it's about getting off fossil fuels for the hoax. HS
the old grind
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It's always someone's 'investment' (consumer or gov't) that makes these things work, so it falls on early adopters and enthusiastic pols to fund R&D.
No matter how long it'll take to fully develop alts to ICEs, progress will be made at the speed of profit while we masses wait for the 'revival' (and volts or alt fuels) to come to 'our town'.
I'm old enough that it'll surely be a diesel that is someday 'pried from my cold, dead hands.'
Sincerely yours,
'Laughing Luddite'.
No matter how long it'll take to fully develop alts to ICEs, progress will be made at the speed of profit while we masses wait for the 'revival' (and volts or alt fuels) to come to 'our town'.
I'm old enough that it'll surely be a diesel that is someday 'pried from my cold, dead hands.'
Sincerely yours,
'Laughing Luddite'.
buickanddeere
Super Member
How are you going to compress gas into a storage tank without a compressor. Compressors require power to operate. Heat has to be dissipated from the compressor and the compressed gas. Submarines making noise is not recommended.
buickanddeere
Super Member
Saying a lot of $$$ was spent on them to appease some greenies.
buickanddeere
Super Member
Do you think there will be a "new" way to store hydrogen ?
Thermal power plants creating hydrogen or supplying power to charge batteries is not an advantage.
Where are you going to find the energy storage density to power plains, trains and automobiles for more than 1-2 hours at a time then spend 5+ hours for a full charge without over heating the battery pack?
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Egon
Epic Contributor
Where is the compressor on a submarine?? They may just have a storage tank that's filled in port!
Seems on excersise's them fuel cell subs are hard to find despite that noisy compressor. And then there's rumours the nuclear powered types need pumps for heat dissipation.
Now I surely know little about fuel cells or submarines but your comments indicate your in the same position!
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