Emergency Lights

[Gem99ultra]

I've gone through 3 sets of those inside the house emergency lights. I'm talking about the kind that kick on when, not if, the power goes out. They're advertised to stay charged up when on stand-by and provide enough light to get out for 90 minutes after a power failure. So far, including my last set of LED's, they'll stay on for about 2 minutes or so, with one set lasting about 15 minutes. Very disappointing. Replacing the battery back-up has done nothing for me so far.View attachment emergency light.bmp

Has anyone found a brand that is more dependable than what I've bought? I'm about to replace all 4 again, and would appreciate hearing about a better experience with them.

 

[Scooby074]

Your pic didnt work for me, but Id suggest going with something commercial if this is something you want to rely upon working when needed. Emergilite is a good brand that Ive installed.

 

[Gem99ultra]

I'm sorry the pic link bombed out. The emergency lights I'm talking about are those two-bulb sets that tie into your house electrical system and come on in case of a power failure. The brand doesn't seem to matter though. I've tried three different brands including Leviton and Levonia, which are well known brands, and had disappointing success.

I've replaced those 6V batteries twice, and just today checked to see if mine are still good, after only one year, and they are fully charged. I'm just guessing that its the fixture that goes bad rather than weak batteries. ??? Perhaps there's one fixture that seems to hold up better?

 

[k0ua]

I'm sorry the pic link bombed out. The emergency lights I'm talking about are those two-bulb sets that tie into your house electrical system and come on in case of a power failure. The brand doesn't seem to matter though. I've tried three different brands including Leviton and Levonia, which are well known brands, and had disappointing success.

I've replaced those 6V batteries twice, and just today checked to see if mine are still good, after only one year, and they are fully charged. I'm just guessing that its the fixture that goes bad rather than weak batteries. ??? Perhaps there's one fixture that seems to hold up better?

I would need to get my hands on them to test for what the problem may be. I would want to know what the battery voltage was under load, and if the load will not come on, I would perform diagnostics to try to determine why. For instance is there a relay that drops with the loss of the 120 vac to energize the 6 volt DC circuit? Unfortunately I do not have any real world experience with those or any other brand. So I will be unable to advise you on something suitable.

 

[Gem99ultra]

Thanks k0ua for your condolences. I'm not so much worried about fixing the ones I have as to finding one that someone has purchased and works. For $20 each, they're hardly worth worrying about too much except that when I need them to work, they do work. So far the ones I've bought in the past have been disappointing, leaving us in the dark when we needed them to shine.

What I do know is that I do have 120 volts coming in to the units and 8.6v on the battery, fully charged. The units are keeping the batteries charged but no allowing the batteries to keep the lights on more than a few minutes at best. Must be some weak condensers in them, or something mystical as such. Hopefully someone has bought some that work as advertised. If so, I'm hoping they can give me the brand and/or model number.

 

[k0ua]

Thanks k0ua for your condolences. I'm not so much worried about fixing the ones I have as to finding one that someone has purchased and works. For $20 each, they're hardly worth worrying about too much except that when I need them to work, they do work. So far the ones I've bought in the past have been disappointing, leaving us in the dark when we needed them to shine.

What I do know is that I do have 120 volts coming in to the units and 8.6v on the battery, fully charged. The units are keeping the batteries charged but no allowing the batteries to keep the lights on more than a few minutes at best. Must be some weak condensers in them, or something mystical as such. Hopefully someone has bought some that work as advertised. If so, I'm hoping they can give me the brand and/or model number.

So after they are on for a bit, then go dim or go off, what does the battery read then? I assume these are small 6 volt lead acid gelled cells? Do you know what the rating in ampere hours the batteries are rated for? and are the lamps LED's or some kind of incandescent lamp?( I am trying to bet a feel for what the load is) And what did the literature say was the run time of a fully charged battery? And just because a gel cell shows fully charged, does not mean it is serviceable. I have some now that charge up nicely to full voltage and even rest at the proper voltage when taken off of the charger in my case 12.7 volts and in your case 6.3 or 6.4 volts, but they are near useless and nowhere near their amp hour rated capacity. Not even 1/10 of that rated capacity.

In my opinion, without any actual facts derived from measurements, to go on the most likely problem with your lamps is the batteries are not any good. If you bought one new battery and put it in one of your lamps and let it charge up for a day or so and retested your run time, this would tell you if my hypothesis is correct.

My confidence in my untested hypothesis is high. But it is still an untested hypothesis.

 

[Larry Caldwell]

I just buy the cheapo LED plug-in flashlights. They work fine, but need to be replaced every 5 years or so when the batteries start to go bad. Figure to replace them when you replace your smoke detectors because the polonium has decayed away to nothing.

 

[Gem99ultra]

So after they are on for a bit, then go dim or go off, what does the battery read then? I assume these are small 6 volt lead acid gelled cells? Do you know what the rating in ampere hours the batteries are rated for? and are the lamps LED's or some kind of incandescent lamp?( I am trying to bet a feel for what the load is) And what did the literature say was the run time of a fully charged battery? And just because a gel cell shows fully charged, does not mean it is serviceable. I have some now that charge up nicely to full voltage and even rest at the proper voltage when taken off of the charger in my case 12.7 volts and in your case 6.3 or 6.4 volts, but they are near useless and nowhere near their amp hour rated capacity. Not even 1/10 of that rated capacity.


In my opinion, without any actual facts derived from measurements, to go on the most likely problem with your lamps is the batteries are not any good. If you bought one new battery and put it in one of your lamps and let it charge up for a day or so and retested your run time, this would tell you if my hypothesis is correct.

My confidence in my untested hypothesis is high. But it is still an untested hypothesis.

Here's what I found...
I bought 6 new batteries including 1 extra new battery after my last failure, 6 months ago. Replaced all 6 fixtures at that time as well. Charged all batteries up including one of the old ones, 7 batteries in all.
After sitting 6 months idle the unused battery still shows 8.7V yesterday. Yesterday one battery that had been mounted and run down after a recent power outage measures 7.6V. Do I need to measure of that failed unit while plugged in to check the draw?

I can't tell if my fixtures are LED or incandescent just by looking. The lenses are glued in place. But I suspect they're incandescent from the yellowish light they display. Maybe just going to LED type would make a difference? Obviously, I'm just shooting in the dark - and have already missed 3 times in 4 years.


Larry, good suggestion; thanks. I'm a flashlight addict. Another 6 would fit my persona just fine

 

[GaryLock]

You are probably looking for something bigger, but I have these around my house, and after five years, they come right on when I do a lights-out generator drill. Stay plugged in, and lights go out, they light up. Floor light and then pull out for use as a flashlight. Many different models.
https://www.walmart.com/ip/Generic-ARCBB200W-Eton-Emergency-Blackout-Flashlight/15111295

Not sure why I can't get the picture to attach. Strange.

 

[k0ua]

Here's what I found...
I bought 6 new batteries including 1 extra new battery after my last failure, 6 months ago. Replaced all 6 fixtures at that time as well. Charged all batteries up including one of the old ones, 7 batteries in all.
After sitting 6 months idle the unused battery still shows 8.7V yesterday. Yesterday one battery that had been mounted and run down after a recent power outage measures 7.6V. Do I need to measure of that failed unit while plugged in to check the draw?

I can't tell if my fixtures are LED or incandescent just by looking. The lenses are glued in place. But I suspect they're incandescent from the yellowish light they display. Maybe just going to LED type would make a difference? Obviously, I'm just shooting in the dark - and have already missed 3 times in 4 years.


Larry, good suggestion; thanks. I'm a flashlight addict. Another 6 would fit my persona just fine

This seems really strange that a 6 volt lead acid gel cell would measure 7+ volts after run down. are you sure these are 6 (nominal 6.3 volts) or are they supposed to be 8 volt batteries?. 8 volt batteries do exist.

 

[RNeumann]

If I'm understanding this correctly the lights have shore power. When the shore power is lost the battery kicks in and the lights turn on. If that is correct my assumption is the "light" has an internal charger that isn't shutting off. The batteries are getting overcharged and ruined in short order. I also don't know what battery technology you are using- I'm assuming you are aware that some batteries get a memory which shortens the life as well.
If I'm not understanding this please ignore me.....my wife has to most of the time!

 

[k0ua]

If I'm understanding this correctly the lights have shore power. When the shore power is lost the battery kicks in and the lights turn on. If that is correct my assumption is the "light" has an internal charger that isn't shutting off. The batteries are getting overcharged and ruined in short order. I also don't know what battery technology you are using- I'm assuming you are aware that some batteries get a memory which shortens the life as well.
If I'm not understanding this please ignore me.....my wife has to most of the time!

No, these are valid questions and concerns. I too am puzzled as to the exact battery chemistry and voltages in these lights. Although the original poster is not really interested in repairing these devices and just wants some recommendations for new units, the tech in me wants to know why they don't work.

 

[Gem99ultra]

If I'm understanding this correctly the lights have shore power. When the shore power is lost the battery kicks in and the lights turn on. If that is correct my assumption is the "light" has an internal charger that isn't shutting off. The batteries are getting overcharged and ruined in short order. I also don't know what battery technology you are using- I'm assuming you are aware that some batteries get a memory which shortens the life as well.
If I'm not understanding this please ignore me.....my wife has to most of the time!

I also wondered if perhaps the units were overcharging the batteries. I could go along with the 7.6V in the unit that had been sitting idle for 6 months. Actually, I was surprised that it was even close to that high. But for the battery in the unit that had just failed to be 8.6V... doesn't make sense to me. I sorta sounds like the voltage regulator in the light fixture is allowing the batteries to overcharge, killing a cell.

One other factor that is probably important, I've checked the voltage inside the house and find its constant at 122V - 124V. We do have a power company furnished 'whole house surge protector system', so I doubt that an electrical surge has done damage to the fixtures.

Just for additional info, the batteries are:
S65 6-VOLT 5 ah Rechargeable Battery Pack; Big Beam Emergency Systems, Inc. -Crystal Lake, IL)
(Identical to the batteries that came with the new fixtures.)

Perhaps my problem isn't the fixture at all, but poor grade batteries? I don't suppose there are lithium batteries available yet?

 

[k0ua]

I don't suppose there are lithium batteries available yet?

Sure there are, BUT your charger circuitry (which is already suspect) for properly charging your lead acid gels cells is not correct nor safe to use for the Lithium ion batteries. This could easily result in a fire.

 

[k0ua]

The 8.6 volts is too high even for the bulk charge of that battery by at least 1 volt. If your meter is accurate, this may be the problem. You charging circuitry has "cooked" the batteries to death. A fully charged 6 volt gel cell might be 6.7 or so volts. Bult charge maybe 7.3 volts from the charger. Float charge should be somewhat less. I am leaning now towards the design of the charging circuit in the lamps is suspect.

 

[Mendonsy]

I did a quick search yesterday and found that some of the emergency lights are using 6 volt sealed lead calcium batteries. I have no idea what the appropriate specs are for a lead calcium battery.

 

[Larry Caldwell]

I did a quick search yesterday and found that some of the emergency lights are using 6 volt sealed lead calcium batteries. I have no idea what the appropriate specs are for a lead calcium battery.

There are sealed lead gel cells and sealed nickel-cadmium batteries. I don't think there is such a thing as a lead-cadmium battery. Ni-Cd batteries are 1.2 volts and they self-discharge pretty rapidly. They also have to be regularly fully discharged or they develop a "memory" fault that shortens the discharge wattage. The short service life sounds like a Ni-Cd pack that has developed a memory fault.

 

[RNeumann]

Ni-cad would be about the worst choice for this application. As stated they had big issues with memory which why they fell out of vogue. Hard to beat lead acid and lithium.

If it was me and I needed emergency lighting at my home I would wire all the lights into a single circuit and build an inline battery backup that came off near the panel. If that's how it was wired I'd be tempted to go that route.

It just seems these these devices leave a lot to be desired. I am on the annual test inspection side of these. I can tell you I have never done anything other than push the test button for a few seconds to verify it came on. No long term test at all. If you absolutely needed this route I'd talk to hospital maint staff (someone who actually uses/relies and tests these on a regular basis) of call a big reputable manufacture like Lithonia to see what they offer. I'm guessing they make models that pass code and models that actually provide a usable lifespan.

 

[Gem99ultra]

Awesome comments! I think you guys have hit the nail on the head regarding the problem. One of two things - either the charging unit is bad or they're crappy batteries.

I'm already thinking that the batteries aren't up to snuff. Mine are 5AH batteries. That'll be the first thing that I do - replace the batteries. After getting those charged up and installed, I'll give them a test run.

If that fails, I'll once again replace the fixtures. The cost of either solution isn't outrageous, but it's a lot more effort to replace 6 fixtures than 6 batteries since the fixtures are hard wired and mounted very high.

Some rooms in this old farm house are pitch black when the power goes out, so I have no alternative but to get something that works when needed. And out here in the sticks, that's pretty often :-(

One other afterthought, should I go with AGM batteries or just any lead acid type?

 

[Mendonsy]

These are the batteries that I found. I have not seen this type of battery used for anything other than emergency lights.
6-Volt-Lead-Calcium-Battery