Hydraulic options for 3 point log splitter

[dougtrr2]

I heat with wood and use 4-6 cords of wood per year. I prefer a separate gas powered splitter. I cut the wood to length in the woods then load up my BX24 loader and carryall with wood. I drive it to my storage area and then split and stack it. I feel like I handle the wood the least amount that way.

Doug in SW IA

 

[bdhsfz6]

I can confirm what others have already said. Back in 1990, I built a splitter from a kit sold by Northern Tool and tapped into the FEL hydraulics of my B7100 HST to power it. My early model 7100 had a front mount external hyd. pump to power the FEL rated at 3 GPM / 1800 PSI. The splitter worked but was terribly slow. I spent more time waiting for it to cycle than actually splitting wood. I eventually added a 7HP gas engine and larger capacity 2 stage pump which worked much better. The project wound up costing more than a brand new gas powered model. It was a lesson learned and I don't recommend trying it.

 

[varmint]

Faced with such a decision, we went with the gas powered splitter, and I would do it again in a heartbeat. Tractor hauls log rounds, and pulls the trailer once it is filled with split wood.
The 35 ton gas splitter always starts easily, runs forever on a gallon of gas, and gets the job done no matter what gnarly stuff I throw at it. I wish it had a quicker return stroke- maybe a two stage sort of valuing? but otherwise a great tool. After years and cords, it leaks a bit of oil, but not enough to fuss about. If you don't already have a 3-point splitter, don't buy one! Lowe's sells the Dirty Hands brand, and I would check them out if in the market again.

(opps- I see you are in Ontario, so forget Lowes... Princess Auto sounds more likely!)

 

[ovrszd]

A tractor powered splitter requires one of two things. A very large tractor with hydraulic GPM approaching 20 gpm, or a PTO driven pump in the 20 GPM range. Without one of the two, it will become an extremely slow aggravation.

 

[Newbie7100HST]

Great real world experience and advice folks, Thanks so much. I'm still frustrated by the fact that I can't find a gas powered split-fire brand for under 3K. Having rented them a fair bit I feel like I'd be settling if I got a one way splitter weather it was 3 point or gas powered. I have found a 3 point split fire for around a grand. My brain can't get rid of the idea of mounting a gas motor/pump set up to it and running it that way. Motor/pumps can be found for around $350. I'd be into what I want for half the price of a stand alone unit.

 

[Dave M7040]

Newbie

As a Canadian engineer myself, I dont want to be seen as putting down the Splitfire product but there is no magic here.

Do you know about the push force of a hydraulic cylinder versus the pull force of a hydraulic cylinder. They are not the same!!!

The force the cylinder will produce while retracting is significantly less than the force when it extends.

The Split fire product, unless it has two hydraulic cylinders, which they don't mention, cannot provide the same splitting force on both of its strokes.

The area of the push rod of the cylinder takes away frolm the hydraulic force on the return stroke.

This illustration helps a little with the explanation.

Look at how Splitfire describes their cycle time, with two numbers such as 4-6 seconds.
That is telling you the volume of oil needed for one of the strokes is than the other stroke. The pull stroke, which has a lower force, also has a lower volume of oil needed to effect the stroke.
In my area, there are a lot of dead elm trees because of Dutch Elm disease. It is a gnarly, fibrous wood and you need all the power you can get to split it.
With the Splitfire, you would be waiting for the stroke with the most force to do the splitting.

If you want to see a fast cycle time look for the machines that use a big flywheel with a wedge mounted to the outside of the wheel. That style was around long before hydraulics became popular. i.e. When Cat D8 bulldozers used a winch to raise and lower their blades because hydraulics were rare.

Here are some youtube videos of very old and current models in action.

WORLDS FASTEST LOGSPLITTER - YouTube

How the DR Rapid Fire Log Splitter Works - YouTube

I will be interest in your thoughts after watching the two videos.

If you are really serious about splitting wood this video is of another Canadian made WOOD PROCESSOR.
Blacks Creek Wood Processor (1) - YouTube

Dave M7040

 

[Nevadblue]

Faced with such a decision, we went with the gas powered splitter, and I would do it again in a heartbeat. Tractor hauls log rounds, and pulls the trailer once it is filled with split wood.
The 35 ton gas splitter always starts easily, runs forever on a gallon of gas, and gets the job done no matter what gnarly stuff I throw at it. I wish it had a quicker return stroke- maybe a two stage sort of valuing? but otherwise a great tool. After years and cords, it leaks a bit of oil, but not enough to fuss about. If you don't already have a 3-point splitter, don't buy one! Lowe's sells the Dirty Hands brand, and I would check them out if in the market again.

(opps- I see you are in Ontario, so forget Lowes... Princess Auto sounds more likely!)

I learned pretty much the same thing. I have an 8 HP, 24 ton Harbor Freight splitter. It can run horizontally or vertically, but I always run it vertically. I have to use cottonwood, which can be very difficult to split. This monster will cut wood crosswise if needed. The tractor brings wood to the splitter and hauls it away. I sit on a log round and split wood. We are a good team.

 

[Dave M7040]

Faced with such a decision, we went with the gas powered splitter, and I would do it again in a heartbeat. Tractor hauls log rounds, and pulls the trailer once it is filled with split wood.
The 35 ton gas splitter always starts easily, runs forever on a gallon of gas, and gets the job done no matter what gnarly stuff I throw at it. I wish it had a quicker return stroke- maybe a two stage sort of valuing? but otherwise a great tool. After years and cords, it leaks a bit of oil, but not enough to fuss about. If you don't already have a 3-point splitter, don't buy one! Lowe's sells the Dirty Hands brand, and I would check them out if in the market again.

(opps- I see you are in Ontario, so forget Lowes... Princess Auto sounds more likely!)

We have a Lowes in Cornwall Ontario Canada: lowes.ca
so we are now in the big league

Dave M7040

 

[Newbie7100HST]

Hi Dave -
Not trying to be an A hole here but as for the first video, I would say that you are absolutely 100% entitled to impose what ever level of risk to your own person you choose.

Now not being an engineer and having only watched the 2nd video with the sound off (sleeping babies), my gut tells me when the inertial forces of the flywheel(s) not sufficient to split the log "instantly" the motor then has to work to both re-establish the speed of the flywheel and the force necessary to split the log. In other words, if the log doesn't split, the ram gets retracted, wait for the motor to get the wheel up to speed and try again.
If all I ever cut were logs that were easy to split I'd gladly just swing an axe.

I completely get the push/pull force theory illustrated based on the difference in cylinder volume. That said here are my real world observations having mowed through about 50 bush chord with a split fire:
1. A noticeable difference in in force between strokes has never been apparent to me
2. The output rate/cycle time (log split for every forward/backward stroke) is consistently higher than with conventional splitters
3. I didn't bother watching the 3rd video as I just watched my neighbour spend 5-6 eight hour days sitting in a tractor (Case) with forks on his bucket loading a brand new black creek processor while paying for the processor and the operator. With no bravado I can honestly say I'd have the same pile done in 7 days by myself with a chainsaw and a Split-fire. Yes with more aching joints and muscles but not with a $17,000 outlay for the processor and lord knows what for the tractor (Case DX45?)
D. Standing dead elm are my go to source for "need to burn tomorrow" logs in the dead of winter and the Split-Fire I normally rent does fine with them. Always brings a smile to my 89 year old father's face when he pulls the leaver and the knife literally slices through a gnarly block.
4. I've never checked if it has 2 cylinders and again, I'm not an engineer, and have no experience with hydraulic systems (I did however ace grade 9 science) and wonder if the vacuum force created by the draw on the side of the cylinder without the shaft in some way compensates and possibly accounts for my observations.


Thank you for presenting an alternative perspective and stimulating me to think about the physics behind the equipment I use.

 

[Dave M7040]

Newbie
I completely understand that, as the guy who is having to split the wood, the way a product feels to you when you use it is of the greatest importance. The rest is just fluff of little value.

If the Splitfire you use or buy has all the power you need, you will never notice the difference in splitting force on either stroke.

Where someone may get disappointed is, if they rent a bigger Splitfire product and then buy a smaller one because of the cost, then they may find it less than they thought they were buying because the return stroke power is less and may be less than they need.

I mention the other styles of splitters only because, as an engineer, I am fascinated by how the problem of splitting wood has been handled for centuries. With the technology of hydraulics, the options today are so much greater than our grandparents could ever have imagined when they were heating their homes.

I will be interested in your final decision and experience as time goes forward. This forum is a great community of people who have helped me learn so much and in a small way when I can, I try and pay it forward.

I notice you have a Belarus. Many years ago (before 1979) a friend and neighbor who had a farm equipment business began selling Belarus. Some were air cooled diesels. My friend had challenges with understanding the electrical systems which were different than he was used on Ford tractors and would call on me with my book learning to try and figure it out. They were strong tractors!

Dave