Snow Attachments Snow PUMP

   / Snow PUMP #101  
Another thing op van do is talk to grsthegreat about his blower on his loader
 
   / Snow PUMP
  • Thread Starter
#102  
I'm slowly prepping to try starting the 12-valve 6bt (waiting for a starter and cutting pieces for a stand). Meanwhile I finally got an answer to the same question that I asked for the Duramax as well while that engine was a candidate: "what is the radial i.e. lateral load limit on the flywheel end of the crank?". I was under the impression that this was an easy to obtain SPEC item for every engine that exists, possibly because I once got an answer of 700 lbs although I forget what engine it was for, might have been for my Deutz. I never got an answer for the Duramax, for the 12-valve Cummins finally came through with bulletin # CEB00576 which it would appear does not recommend belting directly to the engine. I'll probably just do it anyway given that I have little choice on the existing rig. On any truck-hosted setup that might follow or replace outright it will not be a factor.
 
   / Snow PUMP
  • Thread Starter
#103  
I just noticed that I did not get any email alert for postings since #83 so here goes briefly just for a few of your appreciated bits of insight:

#83 pmsmechanic
The direction of rotation is not a problem because making of just flipping a fan is no big deal. The toothed belt reduction can expensive, the two pulleys and the belt on the existing rig set me back well over a thousand but a used tranny with a tx-case is $300.

#84 redneckintraining
The only handling problem with the existing rig is weight, that is to say I should not increase it any or I may have to raise the hyd. pressure which I would rather not do. One of its nicest advantages is that I can attack a tall snow pile at any height and sculpt it down. This seldom happens but would be impossible with any other setup. I don't have a garage, won't either given my age and not being able to justify one anymore.

#85 franklin2
The small pulley between bearings is not the current arrangement but is close to it. I'm using a rubber flywheel adapter to whicj a shaft connects the other end of the shaft resting on a bearing, pulley in-between. This is a good and simple setup and could just as easily be used on a truck. The torque peaks at 1600 and yes I could devise a similar reduction on a truck but it does pose obstacles like where to find 2-3 feet necessary for the small and big pulleys with some room in between for a tensioner which is needed more to wrap more belt around the small pulley. A double system requiring less space would start costing a LOT.

#88 pmsmechanic
I upped an image earlier about a snow-blower made in the 60's using a gang of belts. The side-load there was way over a thousand lbs, mind you the engine was a big Cat, I don't have the details. I'm not too concerned since the toothed belts do not depend on any constant tension even if occasionally the transient load might become high. Shear pins do protect the auger where the torque is huge, if I encounter a large but otherwise undramatic load with the impeller then the engine simply stalls. This 6bt of course will start with double the torque. I do have a pacic button which trips a solenoid immediately releasing the power lever from the electrical actuating cylinder to the spring-loaded shutdown end.


#89 leonz
Thanks for the ref. When I looked at the po$$ibility of a clutch for the Deutz, it being an almost exclusively industrial engine, the only thing I found was new and at $2000 which of course ended right there. Since the 6bt is also automotive it's an entirely different story. But I will look into thosre Rockfords as well, if only for my own education :)


#92 aczlan
No need to run wide open when idle + 200 might do the job. The ideal as bigdeano also observed is to match the power to the demand. I'm still far from getting into this aspect but with hydraulics for example it should be doable: a fan that turns at the speed preset by the operator and consistent with snow conditions, and governed power that automatically follows the load, sortalike a governor sensor on the fan but commanding the engine lever.

#93 bigdeano
Yes, currently i use engine 1000 to redline 2500 which mean about 400 to 1000 at the fan. This would vary with fan sice, tip speed being the limiting figure. With dry snow I get reasonably good toss at 1800 engine rpm already. I vatry the vehicle speed to control the feed seeing that engine rpm starts to weaken with increasing load at a certain point. You could say I'm dosing the speed by ear.

#85 farmboy00
One of the neat features of a wide-range 6-speed with a tx-case is that it gives you so many speeds that you can really plan on changing the fan diameter every day and still find the one or two or three that you can use meaningfully. Much like the engine being (finally!) decided I will probably have many fewer gearing variables to cover once the fan diameter is fixed. A shear-pin even at the engine is something I should investigate because of the now more than doubled torque on tap. I would prefer an automatic but according to many opinions already expressed here they are not as capable as I had presumed.

I don't do facebook but the youtube link I've seen before. I once had a little 7hp honda and it would throw 70 feet butit's all a question of feed rate, tons/minute. My driveway is 2200+300 feet, 16 wide. Just yesterday I had an average of 8" on it, took me 1 hour prep 1 hour blow. This is where the new engine comes in ...hoopefully

#99 franklin2
I think it was with the best of intentions :) This is why some snow-blowing national would go a long way to pumping new life into the industry's economy!
 
   / Snow PUMP #104  
Fitterski I just read all of your comments.

All I'l going to add is that the 4BT and the 6BT are identical engines other than the number of cylinders. So if your looking for a bell housing or something don't hesitate to look at a 4BT. Also both engines were used in numerous industrial applications. As a result just about anything can be bolted to the back of a B series engine. There is about a 3/4 inch thick aluminum plate on the back of the motor that the bell housing bolts onto. That plate can be had in just about any configuration. They aren't cheap but are available to put a B series engine into Ford trucks and IHC tractors. The adaptor plates are also available to bolt on a SAE 2 or 3 transmission bell housing.

There there are several automatic and manual transmission adaptors available from Dodge. Make sure you get the adaptor that belongs to the transmission that you are planning on using as they come in several different thicknesses.
 
   / Snow PUMP #105  
ATTACH]


This is my SAE 2 or 3 bell housing and adaptor for a B series. The back piece is the one that bolts to the engine. It's for bolting an Eaton/Fuller transmission to a B series.
 
   / Snow PUMP
  • Thread Starter
#106  
Fitterski I just read all of your comments.

All I'l going to add is that the 4BT and the 6BT are identical engines other than the number of cylinders. So if your looking for a bell housing or something don't hesitate to look at a 4BT. Also both engines were used in numerous industrial applications. As a result just about anything can be bolted to the back of a B series engine. There is about a 3/4 inch thick aluminum plate on the back of the motor that the bell housing bolts onto. That plate can be had in just about any configuration. They aren't cheap but are available to put a B series engine into Ford trucks and IHC tractors. The adaptor plates are also available to bolt on a SAE 2 or 3 transmission bell housing.

There there are several automatic and manual transmission adaptors available from Dodge. Make sure you get the adaptor that belongs to the transmission that you are planning on using as they come in several different thicknesses.

I had a hunch about the 4bt stuff, thank you, it's nice to hear confirmation! I'm looking at two issues with respect to this engine-rear. One is that since it came out of a '94 dodge that same standard tranny/tx-case would be a primary candidate with the auto following. I also hear from the grapevine that the reason that Allisons in GM's are so cheap is that nobody needs replacements, they're that tough. The other is that in any belted solution I'd want a support right by the flywheel on each side in addition to any others that might avail. I've seen some flywheel adapters with such mountpoints but only on the bigger Cummins engines (so far) and have zero experience in automotive mixmatching. I could probably make an adaptor plate with such mountpoints added to it but finding one used is always an easier solution. Mounting on a hosting truck really opens up many new options but I will likely just start by adapting to the present rig for one season, to get some hands-on time with the engine before taking the ball another yard. The existing rig includes many constraints. All this may change at any time if I happen upon the right truck at the right price.
 
   / Snow PUMP
  • Thread Starter
#107  
ATTACH]


This is my SAE 2 or 3 bell housing and adaptor for a B series. The back piece is the one that bolts to the engine. It's for bolting an Eaton/Fuller transmission to a B series.

Really neat the way you stood the pieces up with sticks, it speaks of an ability to communicate clearly :) Is that flywheel housing the 'adaptor' you talked about? I like what looks like mounting provision although being in aluminum I'd have some questions about the brute strength.
 
   / Snow PUMP #108  
1486819312862.jpg

Ok so I finally got around to posting the same setup from the other side which is what i wanted to do in the first place. Now the front piece is what bolts to the engine. Don't worry about it being aluminum it'll be strong enough for what you want to do with it. This bellhousing is from a medium duty single axle truck. I picked it up on eBay for a project that i haven't got around to yet. This afternoon if i remember I'll take a picture of an automatic transmission setup that i have laying around. It's a bit different than this. I'll post it so that you can get an idea of what a factory manual or automatic belhousing looks like.
 
   / Snow PUMP
  • Thread Starter
#109  
View attachment 498410

Ok so I finally got around to posting the same setup from the other side which is what i wanted to do in the first place. Now the front piece is what bolts to the engine. Don't worry about it being aluminum it'll be strong enough for what you want to do with it. This bellhousing is from a medium duty single axle truck. I picked it up on eBay for a project that i haven't got around to yet. This afternoon if i remember I'll take a picture of an automatic transmission setup that i have laying around. It's a bit different than this. I'll post it so that you can get an idea of what a factory manual or automatic belhousing looks like.

Thanks very much for your help. I spent an hour last might looking at the transmissions used on dodge trucks and spotted an nv3500 with some really interesting ratios. This was developed in response (supposedly with a lower number following?) to complaints that the nv4500 was geared too high. By low and high meaning hight ratios and low ratios respectively. So as I read further it said that the nv4500-HD was made specifically to accommodate the 6bt torque around 400 ft-lbs, a little detail which I think also means that no automatic nor other manual could handle the torque. This was back in the day, I presume that today the situation is different but it's food for thought, don't look too good for automatics.

nv4500hd-tx.jpg

I also went looking for the Gates belt simulator I had used in 2008 but couldn't find it, so I sent them an email. It dawned on me that a two-stage belt reduction could actually save weight over a single-stage because two 1-foot pulleys and two 4-inchers (just throwing random sample around ) weight less than a 2-footer and one 4-incher. This could be interesting if I could also find cheap aluminum pulleys with steel rims, not likely but again food for thought.
 
   / Snow PUMP
  • Thread Starter
#110  
..This was developed in response (supposedly with a lower number following?) to complaints that the nv4500 was geared too high. By low and high meaning hight ratios and low ratios respectively.

I messed that up, the complaints were about ratios being too low, as in 3:1 as opposed to 4:1 :)
 

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