Mobil 1 20,000 mile oil change.

[def38]

kenmac has a pretty good handle on it. At 3-4 TBN, the Amsoil he is using has hit the 1/3 level that it started out with. According to lubrication standards, that is the time to get the oil out of there, irregardless of marketing claims.

As for TAN, most who rely on UOA rarely use TAN as a benchmark for determining when engine oil is worn out. TAN analysis at the refinery is usually reserved for fuels, especially jet fuels (the military is picky regarding TAN for their jets engine fuels).

TBN does a good job of determining when the engine oil no longer possesses buffer capacity and looses the ability to neutralize acidic combustion byproducts. TBN analysis is a titration to a predetermined endpoint of the used oil to determine how much neutralizing capacity (buffer capacity) remains in the used oil. The titration uses a standard acid to determine this endpoint. The higher the virgin oil TBN, the more buffer capacity the oil starts out with and the likelihood it will last longer than an oil with a lower virgin TBN. NOACK scores are also important to tell us how oil viscosity might vary over time. Viscosity can go up or down with use. Either can be detrimental to the oils performance and maintaining a dynamic wedge of protection in bearings.

A high NOACK score indicates the oil will stay in grade longer than an oil with a lower score. Good NOACKs are in the 95 and above range. Good TBNs are in the 10+ range (this is for HDEOs). High NOACKs are a result of quality base stock. High TBNs are the result of quality additives. Therefore, an oil's quality and potential performance can be determined by analysis of various parameters using standard ASTM methods. This means we have a yardstick against which one can select an oil that will likely perform well. However, most of us are not analytical chemists and as such, must rely on word of mouth (depends on the mouth), marketing blah-blah (usually unreliable due to ridiculous claims), study of oil performance (boring for most) and used oil analysis. Good luck out there....its a cruel world when it comes to motor oil.

Now, let's talk oil filtration......

 

[kenmac]

Now, let's talk oil filtration......

OK, Start off a new topic with a new thread. 1,2,3 go

 

[def38]

OK, Start off a new topic with a new thread. 1,2,3 go

Thanks for the invitation but, I'm no expert at any of this oil stuff so, I'll leave it to others much smarter than I.

I rely on Mobil1 in my motorcycle, riding mower and Ford van and Mobil Delvac 1300 15w-40 in my diesel engines. As for filters, FoMoCo, Purolator, Bosch (or Mann) and Caterpillar are my brands. No Frams and no K&Ns.

 

[kenmac]

Thanks for the invitation but, I'm no expert at any of this oil stuff so, I'll leave it to others much smarter than I.

I rely on Mobil1 in my motorcycle, riding mower and Ford van and Mobil Delvac 1300 15w-40 in my diesel engines. As for filters, FoMoCo, Purolator, Bosch (or Mann) and Caterpillar are my brands. No Frams and no K&Ns.

most of my stuff gets amsoil. All 2 cycle gets 80 to 1 ratio . It's baldwin fuel filters & donaldson oil filters for the diesel. The other vehicles usually get a wix/napa oil filter

 

[Cat_Driver]

Hey, you go ahead with your 20,000 mile oil changes, you can save up for a new engine.

You are exactly why i never buy used vehicles, just not worth buying your neglect.

Neglect - get educated. I've driven my vehicles and commercial trucks until they fell apart around the engine and frame and never had an engine failure. The dash gets eaten up, all the door knobs fall off, seats get destroyed, yet the engine runs PERFECT.
So spew your garbage about a new engine till the cows come home, I've been driving for 50 plus years and never ever put a dime in engine repairs due to anything oil related. All you have is speculation and what I have is proof.

 

[kenmac]

wow ! he never buys used ? that means he always buys new and gets screwed as soon as he drives it off the lot. All I buy is used, after those like him take a beating

 

[newbury]

Warning - Walmart alert!
Yanked from slickdeals

5 Qt Mobil 1 Extended Performance 0W-20 Full Synthetic Motor Oil $15.85; Only $3.85 After Rebate
Don't know how long this will last but on walmart.com the 5 quart Mobil 1 Extended Performance in 0W-20 weight Full Synthetic Motor Oil is currently $15.85 Pre Rebate. $3.85 After $12.00 Mobil 1 Rebate!
www.walmart.com/ip/36019107

 

[def38]

Warning - Walmart alert!
Yanked from slickdeals

0W-20 is a little light for my climate. I'll stick with 5w-30.

 

[Copperhead]

As for TAN, most who rely on UOA rarely use TAN as a benchmark for determining when engine oil is worn out. TAN analysis at the refinery is usually reserved for fuels, especially jet fuels (the military is picky regarding TAN for their jets engine fuels).

TBN does a good job of determining when the engine oil no longer possesses buffer capacity and looses the ability to neutralize acidic combustion byproducts. TBN analysis is a titration to a predetermined endpoint of the used oil to determine how much neutralizing capacity (buffer capacity) remains in the used oil. The titration uses a standard acid to determine this endpoint. The higher the virgin oil TBN, the more buffer capacity the oil starts out with and the likelihood it will last longer than an oil with a lower virgin TBN. NOACK scores are also important to tell us how oil viscosity might vary over time. Viscosity can go up or down with use. Either can be detrimental to the oils performance and maintaining a dynamic wedge of protection in bearings.

A high NOACK score indicates the oil will stay in grade longer than an oil with a lower score. Good NOACKs are in the 95 and above range. Good TBNs are in the 10+ range (this is for HDEOs). High NOACKs are a result of quality base stock. High TBNs are the result of quality additives. Therefore, an oil's quality and potential performance can be determined by analysis of various parameters using standard ASTM methods. This means we have a yardstick against which one can select an oil that will likely perform well. However, most of us are not analytical chemists and as such, must rely on word of mouth (depends on the mouth), marketing blah-blah (usually unreliable due to ridiculous claims), study of oil performance (boring for most) and used oil analysis. Good luck out there....its a cruel world when it comes to motor oil.

Now, let's talk oil filtration......

Good NOACK's are in the 95 and above range? Wow. Dexos only allows a maximum of 12 NOACK. Most of the synthetics on the market are less than 13. I know of no oil that even tops 20 in this country. Even the Pennzoil conventional 10w30 I am using in my 2006 Cadillac, PQIA showed the NOACK at under 5, far better than many synthetics on the market. Most of the Amsoil line has NOACK less than 12. The Mobil Delvac syn blend 10w30 I recently used has a NOACK of 10. The Schaeffer syn blend varieties I have used for several years are in the 10 or less NOACK range. I have never used an HDEO with a NOACK greater than 14, even conventional. True, TBN start points typically are in the 10+ range.

I am always willing to learn. Would you post a link to any motor oil that has a NOACK of 95 please? I think we better get a handle on this one before talking about filtration.

True, one can rely on TBN only on a UOA to make a judgement call. I stated that. But industry experts say that without a TAN test also, the standard is that when TBN reaches 1/3 of what it started out with, the oil should be changed. Based on statistical analysis they have done in comparing TBN and TAN change rates over long testing periods. That 1/3 breakpoint is also confirmed in my Detroit Lube Manual for my truck engine. Polaris labs also outlines this in a article in Machinery Lubrication.

Optimizing Drain Intervals Using TBN vs. TAN

Just checked on Lubrizol's site regarding HDEO CK-4 maximum NOACK limit is at 13. 95 would be way beyond that by several magnitudes. ILSAC GF-5 has a max limit of 15. API SN RC has similar limit. Dexos has a limit of 13.

 

[murph1]

Warning - Walmart alert!
Yanked from slickdeals

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