Generator Electric power (PTO generator) on a moving tractor?

[PaulTI]

Hey all,

Is there a way to safely operate a PTO generator on a moving tractor? Or is my best bet to fix a gas generator to my implement?

Apologies for my ignorance, I'm new to tractors and here to learn from you all if I can.

Any input appreciated!
Paul

 

[darmstrong2319]

I think you need to give more information for what you are trying to do. That way you'll get better suggestions once folks get the idea what your trying to accomplish. Good luck

 

[zzvyb6]

I do it all the time. I run a 120v electric pressure washer off my WinPower pto alternator to spray trees. I feed the solution to the washer pump from a farm tank sitting in my front loader bucket.

 

[PaulTI]

Thanks darmstrong, here are some detais:

- Devices to be powered are fairly sensitive electronics (computer, industrial actuators), ~5kW - 10kW power required
- Tractor will be Category 2
- The implement that carries electronics is attached via 3-pt hitch, and weights ~300lbs in tube steel

I'm currently looking at the NorthStar PTO 7800W/7200W generator, which depicts the grounding situation on page 20 of the manual.

Per the manual, the generator should be grounded (to "moist earth") prior to use. Does this mean I should strictly rule out using a PTO generator for mobile electric power on a tractor? Or are there circumstances where this will still safely work (e.g. grounding to steel frame or tractor chassis)?

 

[PaulTI]

I do it all the time. I run a 120v electric pressure washer off my WinPower pto alternator to spray trees. I feed the solution to the washer pump from a farm tank sitting in my front loader bucket.

Thanks for the reply, zzvyb6! How is your PTO alternator attached, if I may ask? I was thinking of mounting our PTO generator to a tube-steel frame (mounted to the 3-pt hitch), and then connecting them with a driveline (something like this). Any thoughts?

 

[jenkinsph]

Thanks darmstrong, here are some detais:

- Devices to be powered are fairly sensitive electronics (computer, industrial actuators), ~5kW - 10kW power required
- Tractor will be Category 2
- The implement that carries electronics is attached via 3-pt hitch, and weights ~300lbs in tube steel

I'm currently looking at the NorthStar PTO 7800W/7200W generator, which depicts the grounding situation on page 20 of the manual.

Per the manual, the generator should be grounded (to "moist earth") prior to use. Does this mean I should strictly rule out using a PTO generator for mobile electric power on a tractor? Or are there circumstances where this will still safely work (e.g. grounding to steel frame or tractor chassis)?

I would really have to consider using a gear drive tractor including reverser transmissions to power a genset at the same time. It would be very difficult to maintain 60 cycle power with changes in tractor movement and loading. Generators really need to hold rpms at a constant speed.

 

[AmericanByBirth]

Have you considering an inverter?

 

[PaulTI]

I would really have to consider using a gear drive tractor including reverser transmissions to power a genset at the same time. It would be very difficult to maintain 60 cycle power with changes in tractor movement and loading. Generators really need to hold rpms at a constant speed.

Thanks for the insight, jenkinsph! If I understand correctly, you're saying that the PTO drive should be independent of the tractor movement drive (separate clutch) to guarantee sustained mechanical power to the generator? I believe these tractor models have independent PTO drives: JD 5100MH, Kubota M96SHDM MUDDER per this comparison chart. With one of these tractors, do you think a moving PTO setup could work?

 

[jenkinsph]

Thanks for the insight, jenkinsph! If I understand correctly, you're saying that the PTO drive should be independent of the tractor movement drive (separate clutch) to guarantee sustained mechanical power to the generator? I believe these tractor models have independent PTO drives: JD 5100MH, Kubota M96SHDM MUDDER per this comparison chart. With one of these tractors, do you think a moving PTO setup could work?

No, what I am saying is that the pto shaft will vary in speed with the engine rpm and is a problem since you can not hold a fix engine speed while driving the tractor. All the tractors in this size will have independent engagement of the pto drive but this does not fix the problem.

I feel your best bet is something like an Cummins Onan Quiet Diesel package genset in the size you need. A cheaper alternative would be a gas genset without all the noise cancelling shields.

 

[jenkinsph]

Have you considering an inverter?

An inverter generator could be a solution but do you know of any pto inverter generator in the 5 to 10kw output range? I haven't seen any thing close so far.


Running a stand alone Cummins genset will burn less fuel than running the tractor at pto speed full time too

 

[PaulTI]

No, what I am saying is that the pto shaft will vary in speed with the engine rpm and is a problem since you can not hold a fix engine speed while driving the tractor. All the tractors in this size will have independent engagement of the pto drive but this does not fix the problem.

I feel your best bet is something like an Cummins Onan Quiet Diesel package genset in the size you need. A cheaper alternative would be a gas genset without all the noise cancelling shields.

Ahh, I see what you mean now. Thanks for the generator recommendations, I might go with the gas generator to keep it cheap and simple.

 

[Argonne]

An inverter generator could be a solution but do you know of any pto inverter generator in the 5 to 10kw output range? I haven't seen any thing close so far.

Some of the invertor generators are stackable, I have a 3Kw Yamaha that can be linked to another to derive 6Kw. Would be an expensive solution, but his plan might benefit from using 2 smallish generators rather than one big one.

 

[jenkinsph]

Some of the invertor generators are stackable, I have a 3Kw Yamaha that can be linked to another to derive 6Kw. Would be an expensive solution, but his plan might benefit from using 2 smallish generators rather than one big one.

Yes and I have two of those Honda inverter generators but I have not seen anything similar to this in a pto model have you?

 

[Sawyer Rob]

IF you aren't going too fast, using lower gears and don't have an undersized tractor for the job, I don't see any reason you couldn't use the pto genset while moving.

The governor on the tractor should keep the pto even enough, provided you are using a lower gear that the tractor can keep an even speed without putting too much load on the engine.

SR

 

[AmericanByBirth]

I was thinking more along the lines of running the inverter through your 12DC wiring, similar to how the do it for pick up trucks.

Something along these lines.

10000 Watt Power Inverter | 10KW Inverter

1kW Export Power Vehicle Inverter | Leonardo DRS

The 2nd one doesn't list a price so I can only imagine...

Plus, if I'm not mistaken, inverters create a "cleaner" AC power compared to generators.

 

[jenkinsph]

I was thinking more along the lines of running the inverter through your 12DC wiring, similar to how the do it for pick up trucks.

Something along these lines.

10000 Watt Power Inverter | 10KW Inverter

1kW Export Power Vehicle Inverter | Leonardo DRS

The 2nd one doesn't list a price so I can only imagine...

Plus, if I'm not mistaken, inverters create a "cleaner" AC power compared to generators.

An inverter would work if you have a 1000+ amp 12volt electrical system in your tractor but I haven't seen one yet.
Don't see this as a practical solution for a tractor.

 

[jenkinsph]

IF you aren't going too fast, using lower gears and don't have an undersized tractor for the job, I don't see any reason you couldn't use the pto genset while moving.

The governor on the tractor should keep the pto even enough, provided you are using a lower gear that the tractor can keep an even speed without putting too much load on the engine.

SR

It is possible but the OP hasn't clearly stated what he is doing yet. Would not take much loading to cause a quick dip in rpms and steady electric power is out the window. Any type of ground engagement variable would be a problem.

 

[Industrial Toys]

A microwave propped up on the fender would be a real nice thing to have for those long days in the field. But pulling something like a genset would tie up your rear end. Problems, problems.

A friend in the inverter business routinely installs heavier alernators in utility trucks to facilitate inverters.

 

[jenkinsph]

A microwave propped up on the fender would be a real nice thing to have for those long days in the field. But pulling something like a genset would tie up your rear end. Problems, problems.

A friend in the inverter business routinely installs heavier alernators in utility trucks to facilitate inverters.

In the winter I keep a small microwave and 4 cup coffee maker on my service truck, very handy on a cold morning. Nice to have a hot lunch too. This also helps make sure the generator has some routine use throughout the year.

 

[AmericanByBirth]

An inverter would work if you have a 1000+ amp 12volt electrical system in your tractor but I haven't seen one yet.
Don't see this as a practical solution for a tractor.

Thanks for letting me know. I was planning in installing one on my cub when I got around to it and now I know it wouldn't work.