Moving to the 1st world

[Wagtail]

Well, all the more reason for the OP to consider Aus... if he & his family are allowed to come and live here. The Aussie High Commission* in SA would have more on that.

We've got a great 'universal' medical system here. (no dental though) It's two tiered in that you can opt for "Private" health coverage, which frees up the Public health/hospitals for those who can't afford it. I've got private health (with dental) and I'm on a pension, so it's not that expensive. We've also got a 'universal' pharmaceutical scheme where the vast majority of prescription drugs are, like, A$5 -6 per script.

*[South Africa is a member of the British Commonwealth, as such member countries (like Aus, NZ, Canada, India) don't have embassies between them but have High Commissions... we're like 'family' ]

 

[RSKY]

Farming here is very specialized. You might be better off to look for areas that produce the products you are used to growing. The farms in my area are not huge like out west but the farmers all use GPS in their tractors. If I can find it I will post a short video a friend made of his 5-year old son in the cab of a tractor. He was planting corn. He comes to the end of a row and starts pushing buttons, turns the tractor, lines up on the next pass and starts pushing buttons to engage the electronics which will keep the tractor straight on the row. Once everything is lined up he leans back and closes his eyes. An alarm will wake him as the end of the row approaches. That is how it is all done. I've never driven or even rode in a tractor automated like that.

The dad was in the cab with the little boy filming of course.

RSKY

 

[check]

Interesting thread, and challenge you have zimbo. Not that being successful as a farmer is trivial (it definitely isn't), but I'd agree that the gating (pun intended) factor may be what you want/need to set up on the horse side. Some of the most expensive horse operations in Canada are a little ways south of me, just north of Toronto, and they were in the stratosphere price wise before Toronto real estate went nuts in general lately.... So the horse side of things definitely needs detailed spreadsheet work.... You may know already, but on the pure Ag side of things, I'd want to identify the key Ag schools in a geography. Top universities in Canada are Guelph, and the U of M (Manitoba). Many fine ones in the USA, but I know them less well - A&M if you are interested in Texas, and I'm sure the Mid-West guys will chime in with the names my old brain cells aren't dragging up.... Farmers are generally aging here, and I'd expect that any of these top schools are oriented towards helping skilled farmers transition into our countries.... what I'm thinking of is all the ancillary resources and issues that tie into a major transition like this. Governments are pretty similar anywhere on the planet, just some guidance on navigating govt bureaucracy is valuable, on top of all the pure Ag knowledge and ongoing research.... Most of Canada may be colder than you want, at least half the year. We have blueberry operations here in certain areas, some are near my friend's place near Abbotsford BC, in the Fraser Valley. They had a rough Winter this year in the Fraser Valley, but generally have fairly mild Winters on a Canadian scale. Putting Winter to Work..... there are operations in Canada that produce Ice Wine - critical timing on the harvest, and you need to find enough people willing to get up in the middle of the night and freeze their fingers ! You don't have to be crazy to farm here, but it helps if you are..... :laughing: You may have a similar berry in SA (?), what is also popular here are cranberries. An example of a long-established operation north of me: Johnston's Cranberry Marsh - Johnston's Cranberry Marsh & Muskoka Lakes Winery I don't know enough about SA to know if wetland farming is common.... It's been touched on already,but bears repeating..... Firearm Laws vary widely, even within the USA - what is considered legal and normal in Texas often is a problem in certain other States. In Canada, sidearms are restricted, and long guns (with just regular paperwork in place) are considered normal for Hunting in season, and in most rural areas legitimate for defense of livestock year-round. Canada has relatively strict storage-of-firearms laws in place (ex. - you need gun-safes at home) in most provinces, whereas some US States have few or no storage requirements at all. Let us know how your research and project progresses :thumbsup: Rgds, Dave.

Forget Toronto unless you're bringing a huge whack of money with you. The average house price is now risen to $1.5 million.

 

[dmccarty]

I mentioned the quote about being born a farmer. I think that is kinda true both mentally, but also money wise, at least in the US for row crop farms. My theory is that one has to be born into a farm family that already owns the large acreage needed for row crops. The row crops farms I see now a days are thousands of acres which would cost a fortune to buy. Not to mention the money needed to own the combines, tractors, semis and trailers needed to farm the land.

The wife's family owns a farm in eastern NC but as the generations die off the land is getting subdivided. No member of the family has farmed the land in decades and the land is rented to a very large local farmer. He grows soybeans, cotton, and from time to time, tobacco. He has a small fortune invested in his machinery. I don't know how anyone starting out could make a living off of row crops. One used to be able to make some decent money off of tobacco and you would see small fields all over the place. The small fields would provide enough money to send a kid to school, buy a car, etc. The crop was labor intensive but not too capital intensive. However, tobacco is long gone.

What I do see the smaller farms doing is You Pick It operations for strawberries, blueberries and orchards as well as onsite stores along with Halloween mazes and scary tractor rides. If they have a diary, they make ice cream and sell through their own retail store. Before Prohibition, NC was one of the biggest wine producing states. There are more and more vineyards being planted in some areas but that takes some time to produce income. Having said that, there is a small vineyard I drive by and they seem to be doing well having events and such. They don't seem to have many vines from what can be seen from the road and I have never seen them harvest a grape but they always have visitors. :confused3::shocked: Go figure. They had a big event going on last night.

One does need to be careful about where one opens a business. I have seen my local government help put people out of business and stop private schools from being built. The only way to know about these things is to read the local paper, find any social media outlets for the area, and talk to people who have been around for awhile AND FOLLOW WHAT IS HAPPENING. One of the best sources of this kind of information is the local barber and hair stylists. They know much of what has been happening.

Later,
Dan

 

[johneic]

Not sure if this helps or not, I live in the US Mid West Mid South, near Paducah KY, land is low cost $2-3,000 per acre, plenty of rain, Humid in summer, 90F high, mild in winter 40F high, everything grows here - just plant it. I have municipal (rural) water and a septic system was installed for $3,000.00, real estate taxes are very low if you live in a mobile home, reasonable if you have a nice house. Kentucky is famous for horses. Good Schools, many Universities. Low crime.

I am 20 minutes from a Hospital and Walmart, 30 minutes to tractor stores and Malls. The County full time Ambulance and Volunteer Fire Department is five minutes away as is a small lumberyard/hardware, restaurants, dollar stores and an interstate highway. No matter where you settle I feel you should have as much of the above as possible. There is a thriving Amish community here where they make a living with a horse, buggy and their own labor/tools, (And no utility bills!, off grid). My monthly bills/utilities are about $800.00 + food and gasoline/diesel (just over $2/gallon for years now).

About the only bad thing about living here is the summer humidity but other areas have bitter cold winters and others have high heat summers.

Tornados or Hurricanes cover most of the US, except the west which is dry.

I lived in Chicago for 40 years, California for four years and I chose to live here 15 years ago and I am not going anywhere else.

Attached is a picture of where I work in the mornings.

Ask me anything here or in a PM if you want.

I have considered other areas of the US that have temperate weather and low land costs, middle Tennesse has less humid summers and similar winters. Northern New Mexico - Western Colorado and South West Nevada all have low land costs and temperate weather (I have only driven through these areas). I am not sure about water availability in these areas.

It is admirable for you to want to better your life especially with such a drastic change in mind. You sound like hard working folks that will make of go of it anywhere you settle.

 

[zimbo]

Wow, so many amazing responses, Thank you everybody.

Living is Africa is not for sissies, More corruption scandals are coming out every day, Just imagine if that money was used for the public good - Mind you from what Ive read the corruption is everywhere, just disguised better.
Owning firearms, doesn't really worry me much, I used to hunt a huge amount as a youngster, but ended up getting involved in culling due to a drought which put me off, not if I shoot its to eat. Owning guns here is very difficult, its probably easier to buy an illegal one than get a license to own one.

Interesting about the "American Dream", I think I'm probably 50 years too late for that, but hopefully its still there somewhere, a place where hard work gets rewarded, the Govt leaves you alone as much as possible and you can have a beer in the evening.

Big decisions to make, the family doesn't want to leave, Africa is home, I can trace my roots back to about the 3rd boatload of settlers in 1688. People move all the time, its just getting the balls to take the first step.

 

[dodge man]

Lots of good opinions. If you do chose to leave, I would recomend a rural area in what ever location you chose. In the U.S., people move around a lot, so a bad choice can be fixed.

 

[buickanddeere]

Hi all

With the troubles getting more prevalent in Africa, and to give our young son a chance at a better life, we are contemplating leaving Africa to carve out a life somewhere else. Our list of potential countries is Australia, New Zealand and the USA.

Sitting at home and looking at pictures on the internet is all very well, but it only tells a little of the story abut a place. I'd like to get opinions from people of what they consider suitable areas we should look at with respect to climate, distance to markets, education, stability, way of life etc

I am a farmer, and produce blueberries (southern high bush and rabbit eye) Passion fruit, row crops and cattle. so Id like somewhere I could keep doing what I know best.
My wife is a professional show jumper and coach and has been on the national team, and would like to keep doing what she loves and knows.
Our son is 2, and needs years of good schooling, friends, university, and the opportunity for a career based on merit.

If you had a reasonable amount of money to get started, but would still need some pretty big loans where would you recommend we look at, and why?

Australians and Canadians are like Americans with healthcare and few to no guns. Australia has warmer weather, droughts and exotic/dangerous wildlife . We have snowstorms and that idiot Justin Trudeau. NZ has about as many Scottish people and more bagpipe bands than Scotland. Australia has power blackouts and expensive electricity particularly in the south because the greenies think that wind make power 24/7.

 

[Wagtail]

Australians and Canadians are like Americans, but with healthcare and few to no guns. Australia has warmer weather, droughts and exotic/dangerous wildlife . We have snowstorms and that idiot Justin Trudeau. NZ has about as many Scottish people and more bagpipe bands than Scotland. Australia has power blackouts and expensive electricity particularly in the south because the greenies think that wind make power 24/7.

Just an edit and a clarification...

The State of South Australia is the one with the power blackouts and expensive power options due to elected political parties (Labor/Greens). They shut down their coal-fired power in favour of (unreliable) solar/wind and purchasing from the 'national' grid. Unfortunately (for them) there is only one 'line' from the State of Victoria to them and it blew down (yep, those big metal high tension towers) which caused no end of headaches for them.

No problems here in Tassie.

 

[zimbo]

South Africa has amazing weather, much like Australia,
The problem is after about 300 years we are still settlers - and history is being re written daily to suit the govt.
Our public health care is a good way to die more painfully than chasing hornets, public education standards keep dropping to make it easier to pass, and a pass mark is 30%

We have power cuts because the power utility, Eskom is run by a corrupt bunch of !@@#$ they are threatening load shedding if they dont get another 20% increase on their charges. This after its proven they have prepaid for substandard coal from the presidents biggest friends, to the tune of $200 million, and that's just one of the stories leaking at the moment.

One of my favorite recent stories is a minister in charge of water says the countries water problems are not because they have done almost no maintenance, but because the colonials built the dams too big so they could not fill up. If we had small dams they would be full and we'd have plenty of water!:shocked: