Moving to the 1st world

[Zerk]

The whole utility is small. It has only 2200 meters. The point I was making was that the utility is hostile to PV and then builds a solar plant that should supply about 10% of power while the sun is shining. When I decided to install PV I asked them what the connection rules are. They gave me a pamphlet describing net metering. But after I installed the system they backpedaled and told me that it would be unfair for other members (we are all shareholders) to pay for my system. In addition they took away my winter heating rate increasing my electric bill by about 600 USD per season. Pissed me off but I would install it anyway.
Speaking about a bad investment. People buy expensive cars and nobody asks them about the break even point. I drive my old junker and have 24 kW of solar panels. Since I have to report the performance of the system after every anniversary I keep track about it on monthly basis in a spreadsheet. My electric bill is about 195 USD/month lower than it would be otherwise. If the system lasts 25 years it will save us about 35000 USD after it breaks even (assuming constant cost of electric power). If we buy electric car (Bolt) it will save us another 200/month in fuel cost.

Cars never break even they are always going down, and have nothing to do with this.

You want to the system when you want to, but you don't want to contribute to the over all of maintaining. You make house payments, even when you are on vacation.

You could invest that money and double it evey 7-10 years. An interesting question will be, does it hold up 25 years, and what point do you need to do maintenance.

Solar has some value being used at a home. But it is awful for a utility, takes to many acres.

Your entire utility is 2200 meters longs? First off, we are not communists. Only have a mile of lines???

Cut the cord if you don't find value.

 

[3930dave]

Your entire utility is 2200 meters longs? First off, we are not communists. Only have a mile of lines???

Cut the cord if you don't find value.

Power and control..... as OP is getting a glimpse of, the game is much the same anywhere on the planet .
If one is lucky enough to still deal with a monopoly utility that is well run, reliable, and delivers low-cost power long-term, then there is little $ incentive for people to do otherwise.

Many of us no longer have that utility environment to deal with - see the Electricity Cost thread that has been running for years. We don't have a problem with the guys climbing the poles in the middle of a storm getting paid well, it's the overall continuous fiscal mismanagement of Hydro in this province that long ago got old here.

I believe Ladia to be an accurate speller. Meters = connection points (households), not metres, is my guess.

The classic case for being off-grid was a remote property, with high line-in costs. Those costs have only escalated the last 20 years, while solar PV has dropped. For people interested in living remotely, and have a DIY mindset, solar PV has become quite viable. Those are the people who will be the first to cut the cord.

Urban dwellers, whose idea of DIY maintenance is changing the batteries in the remote, not so much....

Rgds, D.

 

[bspeedy]

I'd suggest that the OP consider the population of S. Africans in any area they intend to live. I've found that people of similar backgrounds / cultures / national origin are a great support group to newcomers. The local S. Africans (and there are MANY) have frequent picnics and get togethers. S. Africans fit in well in my local area - Greenville SC. I've heard stories from them about their homeland that would encourage me to leave if I lived there.

Good luck with your decision and planning.

 

[Zerk]

P

I believe Ladia to be an accurate speller. Meters = connection points (households), not metres, is my guess.

D.

Down here we spell it meters, when talking about communist measurement system. But that does make more sense, 2200 customers. What doesn't make sense is why he thinks that would keep costs down.


Not sure if he considers that little or alot of customers. But customers per mile is a big part. Some rural areas have 1-2 customers per mile. It drives the cost up to maintain the system, lots of lines, few people paying. In the US it canbe worse in some rural areas, there may be more then one utility, which really makes it inneficent. By me 3 utilities and a REA in 25 mile area.

I am guessing few customers per mile drives the that rates up in Canada. They may be mismanaged, but most people really have no clue, which is why we talk about wind and solar.

 

[3930dave]

Down here we spell it meters, when talking about communist measurement system. But that does make more sense, 2200 customers. What doesn't make sense is why he thinks that would keep costs down.

I am guessing few customers per mile drives the that rates up in Canada. They may be mismanaged, but most people really have no clue, which is why we talk about wind and solar.

That might have been a comment re. how customers get treated. With a big customer base, you can afford to piss off some customers. Small base, not a good idea.

Ontario is Canada's most populated province, so I doubt that density is a meaningful fiscal excuse here.

Rgds, D.

 

[Redneck in training]

Cars never break even they are always going down, and have nothing to do with this.

You want to the system when you want to, but you don't want to contribute to the over all of maintaining. You make house payments, even when you are on vacation.

You could invest that money and double it evey 7-10 years. An interesting question will be, does it hold up 25 years, and what point do you need to do maintenance.

Solar has some value being used at a home. But it is awful for a utility, takes to many acres.

Your entire utility is 2200 meters longs? First off, we are not communists. Only have a mile of lines???

Cut the cord if you don't find value.

We borroved the money for the PV because of the loan interest was low and because it is the second mortgage the interest is tax deductible. In fact, 25000 was 0%. The real story is that after getting tax rebate we bought into a real estate partnership that bought a bunch of rental units for fire sale price during the RE market collapse. A few years later we got our money back plus about 50K and we still own 16 units.
I should have said the utility has only 2200 customers.
I work for power plants once a while. I know that their profit margin is small. They count every hour and limit overtime. It is: Come here, do the job and leave. No screwing around.

 

[Redneck in training]

Correction!
The utility has 5000 members and 1800 miles of power line.The PV plant production is here: AlsoEnergy™ MiniSite
The size of the system 396 kW AC. The cost of our power is almost twice as expensive than in the closest large city.

 

[Zerk]

T

Ontario is Canada's most populated province, so I doubt that density is a meaningful fiscal excuse here.

Rgds, D.

Going to disagree. Been through some of Ontario. Sure big cities have people. But still miles of rural line, with few customers.

 

[Zerk]

Correction!
The utility has 5000 members and 1800 miles of power line.The PV plant production is here: AlsoEnergy™ MiniSite
The size of the system 396 kW AC. The cost of our power is almost twice as expensive than in the closest large city.

Do you mean 396 kV AC? Which isn't a size just a voltage they transmit at. 138kv is popular around here, with longer and major tie points being 345 kV. Transmission lines are higher to use smaller wires, and copper losses.


Populated areas connect smaller stations with 24 or 34 kV, sub transmission. Rural is transmission stepped right down to 12, 8, or 4 kV.

 

[3930dave]

Going to disagree. Been through some of Ontario. Sure big cities have people. But still miles of rural line, with few customers.

Based on just that factor, California should have the lowest costs in the USA.

Utility rate comparisons - Electricity

(Sorry OP.... at least that link let's you compare Canadian options :drink

Manitoba has lots of empty space, yet their rates are half of Ontario's. To make things worse, ON rates have gone up at least once, and probably twice since that survey was done.

Customer density vs. geographic distribution is only one factor of many.

Rgds, D.