Electric Cars: Chev Bolt seems to be the first practical one.

[vvanders]

Well let's talk cars then, without the stupid saving the world crap, let's just put that part of an electric car discussion behind us as pure fiction, it's not saving gas, or reducing CO2 by owning or driving electric. Glad that's settled. I've watched many videos complaining of plain Jane interiors that fall apart like a $12k car, not even in ballpark for a car of $80k. Much of the components are straight up MB, turn signals and such... Like much of the engineering and understanding of building car a is missing. MB C350e is much more a complete design, and is a decade ahead of Tesla. Let's also agree as gear heads a car is a whole lot more that basic transportation. Reliability, performance, styling, construction, handling, build quality, pedigree, history, innovation, comfort, all come into play. Tesla fails in nearly every category in my opinion. Four wheels and a battery, Tesla seems one step above a very nice kit car.

Cool, you don't like it. I think just about everyone in this thread gets that.

Here's a solution: Don't buy one.

You can go on driving whatever keeps you happy and I'll keep enjoying driving our EV. Problem solved.

 

[IslandTractor]

Cool, you don't like it. I think just about everyone in this thread gets that.

Here's a solution: Don't buy one.

You can go on driving whatever keeps you happy and I'll keep enjoying driving our EV. Problem solved.

What keeps Houston happy is an $80,000 soccer mom's SUV that he can fantasize about taking off road but never will (he may be a bit weird but is not stupid). And, to be fair, EVs are not targeted at people living in rural Texas who need to drive 50 miles to find a WallyWorld. EV's are appropriate mostly for the 80+% of the US population who live within an hour or so of a metropolitan area and who only rarely drive more than 200 miles a day.

 

[hawkeye08]

What keeps Houston happy is an $80,000 soccer mom's SUV that he can fantasize about taking off road but never will (he may be a bit weird but is not stupid). And, to be fair, EVs are not targeted at people living in rural Texas who need to drive 50 miles to find a WallyWorld. EV's are appropriate mostly for the 80+% of the US population who live within an hour or so of a metropolitan area and who only rarely drive more than 200 miles a day.

Individual electric cars are not the solution to that 80% you mention, but rather mass transit is.

 

[IslandTractor]

Individual electric cars are not the solution to that 80% you mention, but rather mass transit is.

Certainly mass transit is more appropriate than any private car for residents of big metropolitan areas. It isn't economical or convenient for many residents of suburbs or smaller towns however. I doubt there is a bus stop within five miles of Houston's home for example. Some combination of mass transit, autonomous shared vehicles and private vehicles will be needed until we are all "driving" solar powered jet packs.

 

[buickanddeere]

No one is forcing you to buy an electric car. If you don't want one then don't drive one, pretty simple.

Also, just to head anything off, we're talking about the bolt/EVs here and not politics. If you want to talk about that start your own thread.

[edit]
Also even if there wasnt co2 benefits I'd still drive electric. An american made ~500hp car that weights 5k and can still do a sub 4 second 0-60? I challenge and one who wouldn't enjoy that.

I am not happy giving $14,000 to purchasers of EV and Hybrids to pay for 1/3 of their vehicle's purchase cost. Plus and $1000 to pay for their L2 charger. Then listen to them brag that they are heroes for personally halting some catastrophe that would have eliminated all life from earth.
Not only is their pious attitude and bragging irritating. When the math is done the EV has a long tail pipe and a Bolt makes more pollution than a Sonic.

 

[buickanddeere]

Nuclear has similar issues as coal. To shut it down takes hours or even days. Restarting takes a similar time. Provided that the battery chargers have a software integrating them into grid management could react in fraction of second. In fact they can even sell energy for peak rates.

I am familiar with the plant. It is a short drive from my former hometown. Westinghouse bought it for 1 USD with a condition to complete it. It originally had Chernobyl type reactors that were repalced with Westinghouse design.

Coal can load follow throughout the day or week plus operate on spinning reserve.
A nuclear reactor is best ramped up to 100% and operated at 100% for months at a time. Varying reactor power to load follow causes Xenon poisoning. Any change in reactor power will cause a flux tilt which will require raising or lower liquid zone levels and operation of adjuster rods. Too much of a flux tilt can cause a loss of control in a liquid zone if DCC1 calls for more than 100% or less than 0% zone level = reactor trip. Or if there is not enough positive reactivity to burn off the xenon, there is not enough +K the reactor poisons it's self out. Requires about 36hrs for the xenon to decay and allow restart.
Sometimes nuclear "load following" is performed by keeping the reactor at 100% and diverting some of the steam directly to the condensers instead of sending all the steam to the turbines. Thermal efficiency just goes right out the window and the original design of the condensers did not consider continuous operation of the divert valves.

 

[buickanddeere]

Individual electric cars are not the solution to that 80% you mention, but rather mass transit is.

US cities for the most part do not have high density housing over large areas where mass public transit can work. Mass transit for the typical suburban design requires taking a bus to the subway or driving to the subway station. This north America with wind eopen spaces, not squashed together Europe, south asia and east asia.

 

[Egon]

Individual electric cars are not the solution to that 80% you mention, but rather mass transit is.

Coal can load follow throughout the day or week plus operate on spinning reserve.
A nuclear reactor is best ramped up to 100% and operated at 100% for months at a time. Varying reactor power to load follow causes Xenon poisoning. Any change in reactor power will cause a flux tilt which will require raising or lower liquid zone levels and operation of adjuster rods. Too much of a flux tilt can cause a loss of control in a liquid zone if DCC1 calls for more than 100% or less than 0% zone level = reactor trip. Or if there is not enough positive reactivity to burn off the xenon, there is not enough +K the reactor poisons it's self out. Requires about 36hrs for the xenon to decay and allow restart.
Sometimes nuclear "load following" is performed by keeping the reactor at 100% and diverting some of the steam directly to the condensers instead of sending all the steam to the turbines. Thermal efficiency just goes right out the window and the original design of the condensers did not consider continuous operation of the divert valves.

You mean the Grid is not designed to enable off peak loading systems to maintain the load?

Sounds like the condenser design may be deficient.


A system designed to only handle a static peak really isn't what should have been envisioned.

My truck has a throttle. It's not on the medal all the time.

 

[Egon]

US cities for the most part do not have high density housing over large areas where mass public transit can work. Mass transit for the typical suburban design requires taking a bus to the subway or driving to the subway station. This north America with wind eopen spaces, not squashed together Europe, south asia and east asia.

The city bus seems to have pretty regularly spaced loading zones. It's a system that works. Take some major stops with separate branch lines and people do get moved. Maybe go back and look at the British Railway System that worked well at one time. Some folks say modernization and planning boards have disseminated the system?
Some folks might even have to walk a few blocks or take a little more time planning thier trips.

 

[drssg]

Also even if there wasnt co2 benefits I'd still drive electric. An american made ~500hp car that weights 5k and can still do a sub 4 second 0-60? I challenge and one who wouldn't enjoy that.

I can see what you're saying. I was more attracted by the technology, but I was surprised by the overall driving experience. I've always driven stick shifts, and I find automatic transmissions to be mildly annoying. I found the one-speed transmission with regenerative braking was a pleasure to drive and quite intuitive.

By comparison, I was recently considering a HUGE splurge for my next vehicle, and I test drove a Chevy Corvette. That's been my dream car since I was a little kid, and it turns out that I can't stand it. The road noise at highway speed was ridiculous, and the idle speed engine rumble goes right through my head. Tesla has the performance of a sports car with the ride of a luxury car.