Electrical wiring question

[bdog]

Seems like any currency starting up. Until it's widely adopted, it doesn't make sense. Like the dollar in the beginning vs gold. It's like it's worthless till suddenly not.

The key difference with bitcoin, and why it is attracting so much attention I believe, is the supply is limited. Every other currency mankind has created has a potentially unlimited supply only limited by those who print it. The urge to print more is irresistible which is why we have the inflation we do. Every year your dollar is worth less and less because they print more and more.

 

[Streetcar]

The inventor of bitcoin created it such that only 21 million bitcoins will ever exist. The system auto adjusts the difficulty of the algorithms so that new bitcoin is only created every ten minutes regardless of how fast or how many computers are mining them. The last bitcoin will be mined around year 2140.

The cryptography behind the bitcoins is very secure. It would take the worlds fastest computer something like a billion years to crack one. Many people have adopted bitcoins as a safe currency. A digital gold. They are easily exchanged on a peer to peer network meaning you can send bitcoins (or fractions of bitcoins) anywhere in the world for a very low fee.

The Blockchain is the technology that make bitcoin work. It is a digital ledger of sorts that is maintained by every computer that is mining bitcoins. The network as a whole processes and verifies transactions. Participants are awarded bitcoins that are newly created but they also receive transaction fees as well.

While it is true these things were created out of thin air they have some pretty unique properties in that they are limited in supply and can not be duplicated. I can't really think of anything else on earth like them in that we know for a fact three will only ever be 21 million of them. Gold is hard to mine but who really knows how much exists? US dollars they can always print more. Once you can understand the concept and believe in the security of them you can see how they have value. Anyone in the world can buy a bitcoin and can trust that no entity, government or anyone can tinker with the supply of them.

Bdog
I will rephrase my question. Why are bitcoins given for mining and not a random lottery. Why does bitcoin want a bunch of algorithms solved with assosiciated use of a lot of energy.

 

[LD1]

I guess as of now....yes there is a limited supply of Bitcoin. And theory of how it word is great for now.

But since it's an imaginary made up thing....who's to say in the future that more can't be "created"?

And inflation is another one. Why do we have it? Why do we need it?

Everyone talks about how candy bars used to be a nickel, a loaf of bread or a dozen eggs for a dime, a new car used to cost $3k, and a new house for $10-$20k......

Rough 10x cheaper than today. Well.....wages were $2-$3/hr for a good blue collar job.....about 10x less than today.

So it makes one wonder.....what's the point of inflation.

It's a never ending cycle. Earn xx% more....pay the same % more for everything. And call it inflation and cost of living increases. They balance each other out and we are right back at square one just with the decimal in different places.

In 50 years.....we will probably be paying $5 for a candy bar, $10 for a loaf of bread, $300k for a new car, and $2-3 million for an average house. But a good blue collar job will pay $200-$300/hr. Really no change from today, just move the decimal another place to the right

 

[roadhunter]

rotary convertors are a piece of history from the bad old days when there was nothing better to make do with on the cheap. Now we go with a lower cost and more efficient variable frequency 3 phase drive supplied by single phase. Allows current limiting, torque limiting, start and stop ramping, reversing and variable rpm.

So why are rotary converters still sold if VFD's are better and cheaper for all applications?

You can't just jump into a conversation with statements like this and not expect to be called out on it.

 

[jdom84]

Bdog, I hope you are not going to go solo mining with only 6 miners

Streetcar
Bitcoin mining is solving a block. Bitcoin network is made up of what is called a "block chain" which is just a very public and very secure ledger of all transactions happening and bitcoins awarded. You are rewarded a bitcoin when you solve some ridiculously complicated math equation which is validating all the transactions that are waiting in the block. While Bitcoin is controlled/managed by the people, interesting things can happen to the bock chain when you have miners that are able to process a large % of network. The chain can fork and those who thought they solved some blocks... suddenly didn't because the chain must continue on as one chain and not multiple chains, so the longest chain in the fork wins. "Theoretically if one had majority share of the processing power they could possibly manipulate the blocks in the block chain. "

The only true winners with all types of mining, digital or physical, are the equipment makers and the fuel/energy/service providers. They are guaranteed to make money while you spend all your money on the hopes you will make enough to pay them for the equipment and services they supply and hope there is something left for your self. Granted if you did mine in the beginning and kept your gold/bitcoins until the prices are where they are today... you would be far far ahead. But I have never met a miner that holds what the mined for years in to the feature on hopes the price would be better then what they are getting today.

there are companies in Washington state that have massive warehouses full of miners, these companies are being backed by banks and other large organizations... and even though they are making money... they are spending millions on tech to stay ahead and electricity to run the machines.

 

[bdog]

I guess as of now....yes there is a limited supply of Bitcoin. And theory of how it word is great for now.

But since it's an imaginary made up thing....who's to say in the future that more can't be "created"?

And inflation is another one. Why do we have it? Why do we need it?

Everyone talks about how candy bars used to be a nickel, a loaf of bread or a dozen eggs for a dime, a new car used to cost $3k, and a new house for $10-$20k......

Rough 10x cheaper than today. Well.....wages were $2-$3/hr for a good blue collar job.....about 10x less than today.

So it makes one wonder.....what's the point of inflation.

It's a never ending cycle. Earn xx% more....pay the same % more for everything. And call it inflation and cost of living increases. They balance each other out and we are right back at square one just with the decimal in different places.

In 50 years.....we will probably be paying $5 for a candy bar, $10 for a loaf of bread, $300k for a new car, and $2-3 million for an average house. But a good blue collar job will pay $200-$300/hr. Really no change from today, just move the decimal another place to the right

More can't be created. The code is written a certain way to limit them. Why can't the code be changed you might ask? In order to do so you have to have a majority of the miners on the network agree to change. Very hard to get them to all agree to something especially if it is devaluing the currency they mine/hold. Sometimes people don't agree and fork off and start mining their other coins. There are tons of them but the integrity and initial intent of BTC is preserved.

While wages and price of goods have both risen a bunch you left out the key part. Savings. If you live paycheck to paycheck and blow every last cent I guess you really don't care if the decimal place is moved. However if you are a saver, preparing for retirement, etc inflation will kill you. Back when a new car was 3k if someone managed to save up 100k they would probably be set to retire on it. That 100k today isn't much. Take gold for example. Way back when an ounce of gold would buy a nice business suit even though it had a $20 face value. Today an ounce of gold will still buy a nice business suit but $20 would be lucky to get you a t shirt.

The premise of bitcoin is that it will be inflation proof. Actually it is deflationary as many people have lost their bitcoin private keys and those bitcoins are gone forever so the supply is dwindling. The concept of it is one bitcoin should have the same buying power in terms of goods and services 50 years from now as it does today.

 

[bdog]

Bdog
I will rephrase my question. Why are bitcoins given for mining and not a random lottery. Why does bitcoin want a bunch of algorithms solved with assosiciated use of a lot of energy.

The miners are not just doing random useless stuff. I am by no means an expert on it but for the bitcoin network to work and process transactions it needs a ton of distributed computing power. People spread all over the world. There are small transaction fees the miners get for processing transactions but they don't amount to a lot yet but will as its use gets more widespread. My theory is the creators had the mining and awarding of bitcoins set up so that during its infancy a lot of people would do it otherwise there wouldn't be enough computers to support the network to process transactions. The mineable bitcoins won't run out until 2140 so we will all be dead before that happens but the theory is by then there will be such widespread use that the transaction fees alone will be enough for the "miners" to keep their computers running to process transactions even though there will no longer be new bitcoins awarded.

 

[bdog]

Bdog, I hope you are not going to go solo mining with only 6 miners

Gosh no. I am part of a pool. I am actually setting up my first bitcoin miner right now as I am typing this. I do already have a couple Ethereum miners running I made out of desktop computers and six graphics cards. They are earning me about $12 a day each.

 

[buickanddeere]

So why are rotary converters still sold if VFD's are better and cheaper for all applications?

You can't just jump into a conversation with statements like this and not expect to be called out on it.

This is why VFD's are superior to rotary converters in addition to wasting less power than the rotary in the conversion process . " A VFD provides a true three phase power with exactly 120 degrees between phases . Applied voltage is also identical phase to phase . Three phase motors driven from a VFD vs a rotary converter can operate at full rated shaft HP without exceeding rated FLA on any phase . The VFD driven motor operates quieter and cooler. The motor starting torque , ramp up speed , stall torque, reversing and instant stop can be programmed . Rpms can be controlled ."

 

[Mace Canute]

The inventor of bitcoin created it such that only 21 million bitcoins will ever exist. The system auto adjusts the difficulty of the algorithms so that new bitcoin is only created every ten minutes regardless of how fast or how many computers are mining them. The last bitcoin will be mined around year 2140.

The cryptography behind the bitcoins is very secure. It would take the worlds fastest computer something like a billion years to crack one. Many people have adopted bitcoins as a safe currency. A digital gold. They are easily exchanged on a peer to peer network meaning you can send bitcoins (or fractions of bitcoins) anywhere in the world for a very low fee.

The Blockchain is the technology that make bitcoin work. It is a digital ledger of sorts that is maintained by every computer that is mining bitcoins. The network as a whole processes and verifies transactions. Participants are awarded bitcoins that are newly created but they also receive transaction fees as well.

While it is true these things were created out of thin air they have some pretty unique properties in that they are limited in supply and can not be duplicated. I can't really think of anything else on earth like them in that we know for a fact three will only ever be 21 million of them. Gold is hard to mine but who really knows how much exists? US dollars they can always print more. Once you can understand the concept and believe in the security of them you can see how they have value. Anyone in the world can buy a bitcoin and can trust that no entity, government or anyone can tinker with the supply of them.

I got curious about just how secure bitcoins are and Googled "How secure are bitcoins?" This was the first of many results.

How Secure are Bitcoins? - Visual Capitalist