Keeping water pipe thawed above ground

[newbury]

The pipe insulation and pex aren't designed for outdoor use. The insulation will rot fairly quickly exposing the pex. But based on your responses to most of the suggestions I'm sure you knew that since you were 12 years old. Good luck on the project- sounds like you have it all figured out.

I realize that both are not designed for outdoor use. However I've got one short section of copper pipe outside that someone put a section of pipe insulation over before we bought the place in 2011 and it's still holding up. We didn't have PEX or cheap foam pipe insulation when I was 12.

You can sleeve PEX inside some other pipe/conduit to protect it from UV (I would not count on insulation for that, as that has its own issues with UV exposure). Be aware of wear issues that might arise from the PEX rubbing on the outer pipe/conduit as it cycles slowly under normal plumbing movement. I have put PEX inside black poly irrigation pipe, and am not too worried about that in my lifetime.

I was originally thinking of running mostly inside the shops, I'm trying to gauge the tradeoffs between running it inside the shops (a little more labor, damage if it leaks) and putting it in pipe (cost and more installation time). It seems the least expensive outside solution would be to "bundle" the PEX, heat tape, insulation inside 4" corrugated drain pipe. I can get 100' for $66. And with the PEX and heat tape INSIDE the insulation I don't think it will be rubbing on much.

Based on my readings about PEX it should take the occasional freezings without bursting, the main problems seem to occur at joints. And I plan on minimizing joints.
If I put it inside perforated corrugated drain pipe I'll be easily able to spot a leak.

 

[Egon]

Get temperature activated heat tape, pipe insulation ( Comes formed) and add a metal cladding.

[video]https://www.amazon.ca/Easy-Heat-AHB-019-Weather-Heating/dp/B00002N6MB[/video]

 

[Deere Dude]

At work they used long heat tape that could be cut off at any length and ends put on. This worked for keeping gutters free from ice in Wisconsin. Some were pretty long, like 100', and didn't use much current.

 

[newbury]

Get temperature activated heat tape, pipe insulation ( Comes formed) and add a metal cladding.

[video]https://www.amazon.ca/Easy-Heat-AHB-019-Weather-Heating/dp/B00002N6MB[/video]

WOW, that stuff must be good. From the description:

Temperature-controlled cable runs straight along pipe and valves, held in place by application tape and plugs into grounded electrical outlet. Keeps water flowing down to -380.

That must be Farenheit Won't get that cold in Mississippi until ____ freezes over.

That's a lot better than any other brands I looked at.

At work they used long heat tape that could be cut off at any length and ends put on. This worked for keeping gutters free from ice in Wisconsin. Some were pretty long, like 100', and didn't use much current.

Being able to cut to any length is interesting - do you know the brand?

 

[aczlan]

Being able to cut to any length is interesting - do you know the brand?

Perhaps something like this?
Amazon.com: Easy Heat 212 1' Freeze Free Cable: Automotive

Aaron Z

 

[PILOON]

Perhaps something like this?
Amazon.com: Easy Heat 212 1' Freeze Free Cable: Automotive

Aaron Z

I have used this style on more than a few installations.
Works on the thermister principal, colder it is the more it conducts, generally every foot is an individual 'heat element' so that only those frozen 'feet' get heated.
There are more than just a few brands available and usually you'll find the products in stock in cottage country areas.
Some brands are designed for internal pipe installation (best) and others to be taped onto the water pipes in question.
The most efficient is internal, and wrapping with non absorbent foam as a method of retaining the heat where you want it, eg in the pipe and not heating the soil.
I have furthermore sometimes run the whole wrapped piping inside of rigid tubing for mechanical protection (like under a driveway).
Embedding the heated waterline in sand is also a good precaution as sand will drain away water as well as providing mechanical protection.
(frost and a small stone can nick or cut those buried pipes)

Those heated tracing lines by the nature of the design cost very little to operate since only the cold zones get heated.

The heat tapes that come in predetermined lengths with a simple sensor at one end are really not good for water lines since they only sense at one point and not where the cold spot is.
\They are good for eaves and down pipes that are completely surrounded by cold freezing air but not for underground lines that have varied insulation values.

 

[newbury]

Perhaps something like this?
Amazon.com: Easy Heat 212 1' Freeze Free Cable: Automotive

Aaron Z

Thanks, that looks like a winner for winter.

 

[Deere Dude]

Perhaps something like this?
Amazon.com: Easy Heat 212 1' Freeze Free Cable: Automotive

Aaron Z

I am sure its on the same page. I personally didn't use it but watched electricians use this stuff for eves in a Wisconsin factory roof to keep water flowing. It seems like some good stuff or they would not use it very long.

 

[BHD]

feed the line with a freeze proof hydrant and a vacuum breaker and shut it off when it going to freeze,

on the low spots one can put in a drain valve if you want, to drain out the line,

my guess is you would not get that many freezes a year.

 

[beowulf]

Perhaps it is not the most complete solution, and it does require some attention, but it is at least cheap - what I do for out lying bibs when the temp is going to drop to a bit below freezing for a few hours, is to leave those bibs open - just a bit. I only have to use this for a few bibs, as I have shut-offs for some lines, and it does not freeze here that often, it is very doable for me. So, if it is not going to freeze very often, and you will be around, this is an option. You can also put in a recirculation pump, and, or, use heat tape. I have heat tape at the well which has a thermostat of some sort that turns it on when the temp drops to a certain point.