Who makes best heat pumps (HVAC)

[Sigarms]

Hard to understand why there is not a line out there for training programs to fill these $100K/year + jobs.

Ron

Out of all the contractors I know, I only know of one company where there service techs have the opportunity to make 100k a year, and they are located about 2,000 miles from North Carolina (not Carolifornia, but with pricing the way it is out there with cost of living, I'm certain some service techs in that communist state could make 100k a year)..

A good service tech running 4-8 service calls a day will make more than 50k, but still way less than 100k a year. However, if they're good, they're worth every penny, to both the business owner and homeowner.

The issue is keeping the service tech busy, added the fact that rarely do HVAC contractors give their service techs an exam to see exactly what they know. I don't know of a service tech during a job interview that has ever admitted he doesn't know what he's doing, but 6 months later, it's easy to figure out with the call backs.

The biggest problem is good service techs think they know what the owner of the company they work for is making, and then decide to go into business for themselves because they want more money. This, while NEVER ever taking a business class and understanding exactly how much it costs to run a business, even if they work out of their house and their van is paid for. From a business standpoint, you can make the most money in service, but at the same time, it's the easiest department (compared to install) to loose your shirt on and not even know it.

 

[Sigarms]

On a sidenote, I replaced two systems in my home. 2 dual fuel that replaced gas/AC systems (on LP). The two systems I put in are basically a no name brand that people wouldn't recognize, and those gas furnace heat pump systems have been in for a total combination of about 15 years, and so far, only one capacitor replaced over that time frame.

One system even has both an oversize suction and liquid line per the manufacturer reccomendations because it's well over 70' in length with a 23' rise.

I have a picture somewhere of the micron gauge when the pic was taken during install at 10:30 at night pulling down below 500 microns I also used the "expensive" brazing rods:laughing: I also clean the coils every year as well as check out the electrical to ensure no heavy wear is indicating a possible future issue.

A good install takes time. The small material that the homeowner never sees can add up to $100's of dollars in difference between using "good stuff" and "cheap stuff" that over time can affect the performance of the system (and guys won't even replace pads, whips or disconnects when replacing a new system because it does add up).

 

[ProjectKing]

Interesting info. Turns out my HVAC system has water in refrigerant which caused acid to form which took out pump. Pretty disgusted. Probably happened during install of a new condenser over a year ago.

Now I have to decide what to do. Will probably install new system.

 

[kenmac]

Interesting info. Turns out my HVAC system has water in refrigerant which caused acid to form which took out pump. Pretty disgusted. Probably happened during install of a new condenser over a year ago.

Now I have to decide what to do. Will probably install new system.

yep, someone didn't purge and pull proper vacuum ... moisture is a killer.

You know this person didn't do a proper job. Don't hire this same person for your new system

 

[Tractor Seabee]

Burn outs are the worst case repairs. If you keep the system and change just change the compressor; a large suction filter/drier is a must do, preferably a replaceable element one. They do remove the acid residue before it gets into the new compressor. Never leave the first element or drier in the system; after the initial run-in program replace the element. It is a wonder that some systems last as long as they do with so many inept technicians out there. Nationwide there is a drastic shortage of "expert" technicians out there and no one seems to want these family wage jobs.

Ron

 

[mrblanche]

Just in passing (since I would guess what's going to be done has been done), we installed a new Lennox system in our house this year. SEER 19, I believe. All the bells and whistles, including being able to control it from my cell phone. The old system still worked, but we had a reversing valve get stuck. It was 20 years old, so we figured it was time. It's nearly silent, keeps the humidity down, and our electric bills have been a very pleasant surprise. Plus, we got $1500 rebate from Lennox and a $550 rebate from our electric company. And the Lennox dealer's bid was the lowest of the 5 guys or so we had bid it.

For what it's worth, Consumer Reports says American Standard has the best dependability rating in the industry.

 

[daugen]

Projectking's experience just reinforces the importance of keeping moisture out of the system.
On an annual checkup, should they be purging the system to get rid of any moisture? They made a big deal of cleaning the fins
on the outside, but what about on the inside? I know they checked the refrigerant pressure, or level, but not the moisture. Maybe they did.

sure learning a lot here. So I can just lean over near the tech working on my unit and ask him if he's taken it down to 500 and I'll sound
like I know what I'm talking about... I have two Trane gaspacs and one Trane heatpump. Lot of equipment, which I paid to have completely gone through, including
a reversing valve replaced under ten year warranty. Labor charge was equivalent to a root canal. And about as much pleasure. But a must do.

This makes me wonder if it's worth a call to my local hvac guy who I like very much and simply ask him, did you suck the moisture out?
And to what degree?
Anything else I should ask?

You have to wonder what all this flooding and hurricane damage is going to do to all those ground level hvac units.
The nicest Lennox full of mud is still inop.

Do any of the brands have some nifty feature, other than web based monitoring, that makes the unit genuinely better?
Like when fans went to variable from fixed. Or the outside fan cases started getting really large.
Not a big deal but something. What's the next "something" and who has it, to speak
(finally) to the OP's question.

 

[Tractor Seabee]

Projectking's experience just reinforces the importance of keeping moisture out of the system.
On an annual checkup, should they be purging the system to get rid of any moisture? They made a big deal of cleaning the fins
on the outside, but what about on the inside? I know they checked the refrigerant pressure, or level, but not the moisture. Maybe they did.

sure learning a lot here. So I can just lean over near the tech working on my unit and ask him if he's taken it down to 500 and I'll sound
like I know what I'm talking about... I have two Trane gaspacs and one Trane heatpump. Lot of equipment, which I paid to have completely gone through, including
a reversing valve replaced under ten year warranty. Labor charge was equivalent to a root canal. And about as much pleasure. But a must do.

This makes me wonder if it's worth a call to my local hvac guy who I like very much and simply ask him, did you suck the moisture out?
And to what degree?
Anything else I should ask?

You have to wonder what all this flooding and hurricane damage is going to do to all those ground level hvac units.
The nicest Lennox full of mud is still inop.

Do any of the brands have some nifty feature, other than web based monitoring, that makes the unit genuinely better?
Like when fans went to variable from fixed. Or the outside fan cases started getting really large.
Not a big deal but something. What's the next "something" and who has it, to speak
(finally) to the OP's question.

It is not easy to get moisture into a AC refrigeration system as it is a sealed system operating at a pressure. It has to be introduced upon a leak in the system that loses all the refrigerant or enough where the suction side gets into a vacuum that sucks in air and moisture, during service when technicians access the system with their gauge set (minimal chance), or during installation (most common). Drawing the system down to a deep vacuum is not sufficient; it needs to set with the pump operating for several hours. What the vacuum does is vaporize the water into gas and ejects it. See the link below for the RSES Technician training on system evacuation as it says it better than I can.

https://www.rses.org/assets/rses_journal/0912_Vacuum.pdf

Any procedure short of this is an indicator that your technician is not properly trained and you should not let them see your system. This is why a lot of auto AC DIY work fails shortly after done. Those systems are worse for leaks as they have a rotating shaft with a mechanical seal that isolates it from atmosphere that fail over time.

Ron

 

[Sigarms]

For what it's worth, Consumer Reports says American Standard has the best dependability rating in the industry.

I've been in the HVAC industry over 20 years now.

For what it's worth, consumer reports is absolute bull****e when it comes to rating HVAC systems.

The issue is an HVAC system isn't a "plug and play" product like a refrigerator, dishwasher or stove, and installation practices does play a considerable variable in "perceived quality" per how the system will perform.

I still remember when Rheem was rated #1 and Ruud was rated at the bottom, and yet they are the SAME equipment with just a different name plate. The same can be said for American Standard and Trane, Carrier and Payne and a host of "other lines".

The HVAC industry has gone to consumer reports to try and understand exactly how they do their "quality ratings", and other than whoever screams the loudest, no one can figure it out.

 

[ProjectKing]

I've been in the HVAC industry over 20 years now.

For what it's worth, consumer reports is absolute bull****e when it comes to rating HVAC systems.

The issue is an HVAC system isn't a "plug and play" product like a refrigerator, dishwasher or stove, and installation practices does play a considerable variable in "perceived quality" per how the system will perform.

I still remember when Rheem was rated #1 and Ruud was rated at the bottom, and yet they are the SAME equipment with just a different name plate. The same can be said for American Standard and Trane, Carrier and Payne and a host of "other lines".

The HVAC industry has gone to consumer reports to try and understand exactly how they do their "quality ratings", and other than whoever screams the loudest, no one can figure it out.

Consumer Reports is actually a pretty lousy company in my book. I had to deal with them once over a subscription issue. Pure New York City shysters!