Plumbing Problem

[jaxs]

It's worth hireing a leak detection company. The one's I've used applied air pressure then listened with various stethoscopes. It's better if the leak detector doesn't do repairs,just mark's the location and leave's repair to plumbers. If leak isn't between storage tank and house,there's better than 50-50 odds leak is at a connection and all connections should be above foundation in walls.

 

[hr3]

Not sure if some of the isolating you've done would have picked up on this. A leaky/stuck open flapper in my toilet drained my well overnight. I was scratching my head on this one for a while trying figure out where the water went. Depending where your toilet is, it could drain the pipes leaving air.

Ya I thought of that too, I shut the valves off to them even and it still does it..???

 

[hr3]

It's worth hireing a leak detection company. The one's I've used applied air pressure then listened with various stethoscopes. It's better if the leak detector doesn't do repairs,just mark's the location and leave's repair to plumbers. If leak isn't between storage tank and house,there's better than 50-50 odds leak is at a connection and all connections should be above foundation in walls.

I'll check and see if I can find someone to do this,, but remember I am in the Philippines,, I can't even find rock wool or fiberglass insulation over here.. arggg

 

[TractorGuy]

Just had a leak repaired in one of my pipes. One thing I hated about having a slab house built was the thought of a pipe busting under the slab. I could hear my leak. It was in the wall behind the spare bathroom sink. Got lucky and it was actually above the slab but the plastic sleeve was causing the water to go below slab so no floor damage. Plumber had to cut a 1 foot square piece of sheet rock out of the wall behind it. We have a dresser covering that wall so I just glued a piece of wood inside to support the sheet rock and stuck it back in the hole.

Plumber said if it breaks a pipe below slab they replumb through the attic with PEX nowadays.

 

[quicksandfarmer]

When I'm trying to diagnose plumbing problems I keep telling myself, "there is no magic." Water follows the laws of physics.

Two things you have said indicate there is a leak: the well pump cycles even if you aren't using water, and if you shut off the well pump you get air in the pipes. The first job is to locate the leak. The air in the pipes makes me think the leak is low down, air would only enter to the level of the leak. Your best tool is to isolate sections of the plumbing to get a rough idea of where the leak might be. Usually on the water heater there is a shutoff valve that allows you to shut off the hot half of the water system, that reduces your search by 50% right there. Then look for other shut-off spots, and even places where the pipe is exposed and you could add a shutoff and isolate part of the house. I would close the shutoffs on all the fixtures and appliances in the house to make sure it's not a leaking toilet or dishwasher somewhere. I would work first on trying to determine whether the leak is in the slab or in the house because that determines your approach.

You might be able to hear the leak with a stethoscope.

If you decide the leak is in the slab, you have to decide how you're going to fix it. The question is whether you're going to dig it up and fix it or abandon it and re-route the pipe. If you're going to abandon it there's no point in pin-pointing the location. If you're going to fix it the closer you are the smaller the hole you have to dig. Often in situations like this the value a plumber brings is not necessarily in doing anything you couldn't have done, but knowing when there's no choice but to start knocking holes in things.

The loss of pressure on the pump is puzzling and not consistent with a leak. If you were losing enough water for the house water to drop I'd expect you'd be seeing it coming out somewhere and hearing it. That sounds to me like air getting into the pump and taking a while to work itself out.

It's also good to quote Sherlock Holmes: "when you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth."

 

[hr3]

When I'm trying to diagnose plumbing problems I keep telling myself, "there is no magic." Water follows the laws of physics.

Two things you have said indicate there is a leak: the well pump cycles even if you aren't using water, and if you shut off the well pump you get air in the pipes. The first job is to locate the leak. The air in the pipes makes me think the leak is low down, air would only enter to the level of the leak. Your best tool is to isolate sections of the plumbing to get a rough idea of where the leak might be. Usually on the water heater there is a shutoff valve that allows you to shut off the hot half of the water system, that reduces your search by 50% right there. Then look for other shut-off spots, and even places where the pipe is exposed and you could add a shutoff and isolate part of the house. I would close the shutoffs on all the fixtures and appliances in the house to make sure it's not a leaking toilet or dishwasher somewhere. I would work first on trying to determine whether the leak is in the slab or in the house because that determines your approach.

You might be able to hear the leak with a stethoscope.

If you decide the leak is in the slab, you have to decide how you're going to fix it. The question is whether you're going to dig it up and fix it or abandon it and re-route the pipe. If you're going to abandon it there's no point in pin-pointing the location. If you're going to fix it the closer you are the smaller the hole you have to dig. Often in situations like this the value a plumber brings is not necessarily in doing anything you couldn't have done, but knowing when there's no choice but to start knocking holes in things.

The loss of pressure on the pump is puzzling and not consistent with a leak. If you were losing enough water for the house water to drop I'd expect you'd be seeing it coming out somewhere and hearing it. That sounds to me like air getting into the pump and taking a while to work itself out.

It's also good to quote Sherlock Holmes: "when you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth."

Have read your post several times lots of good thoughts,, Question for you if air were getting into the pump would that mean i'm sucking it dry somehow ??? or would the air be coming from somewhere else ???

Thanks

 

[radioman]

to understand -- we more info here - how far does the line go under the slab to the first shutoff valve? any wet spots in the lawn between house and pump? do you feel the leak in between house and pump or right in the house? what size piping is it? can you rig up a garden hose from the pump and run to the house outdoor faucet and shut off the line to the pump in the house and test overnight? if it still leaks down then im afraid you need to start repiping in the house. if it holds then you just need to run a new line from pump to house somehow- smaller one inside old or dig up and install new or reroute to least amount of work to break up slab .

 

[ultrarunner]

Could be a rusty or perforated pickup for shallow wells or the well water level dropping?

 

[Egon]

The line to pump house is good so start by finding the supply line where it enters the house. Put in a valve and then you will be able to determine which segment has a leak. Then go from there..

 

[hr3]

The line to pump house is good so start by finding the supply line where it enters the house. Put in a valve and then you will be able to determine which segment has a leak. Then go from there..

The house is on a slab and the slab goes out about 10' away from the house. There are no shutoffs in the house only the ones below the toilets. "This is how it is done here I know it wrong but"

The line from the pump house to the house is only about a foot deep with no wet spots anywhere near them.