Save $$$ - Heat with Wood

[LD1]

That $160 is INCOME, and the government takes a percentage of it from people who give an honest accounting. So you would not have the full $160 to spend on other fuels after Uncle Sam takes his cut. Whether you actually declare and pay taxes on that income is up to you and your own set of personal ethics. Odds are the government won't ever know, but again, up to you.

I have already addressed this.

If you do "honest" accounting, and write off expenses (expenses that you cannot write off if you burn and not sell)....it's a wash.

 

[LD1]

LD1 as another homeowner with geo you've gone an ruined it for me. I'm now looking at about 5 cords of wood and feeling guilty about using it instead of selling it. Not really but I never really looked at the wood pile from your prospective, just as free heat. I still plan on burning it though. I've got a 16" stainless flue that runs 32ft high and about 26ft of stonework for the fireplace. It was obviously never put in to "save" us money but simply for our enjoyment. The whole family begs for me to get the fire going during the winter if I haven't already.

Another great reason to burn wood. Personal enjoyment. Yes it's nice to have a nice fire place with a fire roaring.

Just don't fool yourself thinking it's a big money saver.
.I have no issues burning wood. Just have issue with people claiming it's soooo much cheaper (because the wood is "free"), but in reality, it's not

 

[s219]

You clearly missed the point of my post.

I agree -- LD1, take a look again at what TnAndy wrote, it makes a good point.

 

[goeduck]

I think they are rationalizing the same basic point in totally different ways.

 

[LD1]

I agree -- LD1, take a look again at what TnAndy wrote, it makes a good point.

Went back and read everything again. Still fail to see how taxes come into play.

I am simply saying.....How much heat can you buy, if you were to sell the wood and purchase another form of heat. Thats it. No taxes.

For may, yes, firewood is still probably the cheapest.

The whole point of posting is to try to get people to realize that wood has value. Too many people look at all the "free" wood they cut and think they are saving a boat load of money with all their "free" heat.

I used to think the same way. Grew up in an old farm house and fed it 7-10 cord of wood every winter. And hey, that wood cost us nothing more than the time it takes to cut and split it.

And while thats true....., Whats also true is that I could have sold that wood for $1500. So the question is, how much would it cost to heat the same house on propane? $2000 maybe??

So rather than look at burning wood as saving you $2000 a year......You are really only saving $500.

 

[TnAndy]

Then what's your beef with me?

I don't have a beef with you. You're the one that waded in, confusing what I said with selling wood and the resulting tax/no-tax issues from the sale of wood, then saying my statements on taxes were baloney.

Anytime I can produce a head of broccoli, or a cord of firewood, or fix my washing machine, from my own place and use it myself, I consider the fact that buying any of that, I have to add a tax implication that I would have paid buying it, that for me, ends up adding about 35-40% to the so-called cost of the item WHEN DOING APPLES TO APPLES comparison.

Wood still may not work out cheaper....one has to factor in the cost to produce it ( tractor use, chainsaw, splitter, etc) versus buying it even with after-tax dollars.....but using after-tax dollars IS a consideration. That is the point I was making.

Think of it what you may.

 

[TnAndy]

Went back and read everything again. Still fail to see how taxes come into play.

I am simply saying.....How much heat can you buy, if you were to sell the wood and purchase another form of heat. Thats it. No taxes.

For may, yes, firewood is still probably the cheapest.

The whole point of posting is to try to get people to realize that wood has value. Too many people look at all the "free" wood they cut and think they are saving a boat load of money with all their "free" heat.

I used to think the same way. Grew up in an old farm house and fed it 7-10 cord of wood every winter. And hey, that wood cost us nothing more than the time it takes to cut and split it.

And while thats true....., Whats also true is that I could have sold that wood for $1500. So the question is, how much would it cost to heat the same house on propane? $2000 maybe??

So rather than look at burning wood as saving you $2000 a year......You are really only saving $500.

OK....you put the work + the cost of the tractor/saw/splitter into selling your wood for $1500......(forget the taxes for the moment)...then spent an additional $500 to buy propane.

1. WHY would you do that.....spend 500 more than you have to ?

2. WHERE did the other 500 come from ? Your job where you do actually pay taxes ? Maybe you beat the tax man on all your income......good for you.....I'm not that lucky.

If so, you had to EARN 500 plus federal income tax plus state income tax (if that applies) plus social security taxes plus you may have paid sales tax on the propane (varies state to state).

SO was it $500, or was it (in my case) more like 500 + 35%, or $675 ?

 

[Egon]

I said nothing about selling wood, nor whether anyone pays taxes on the sale.

What I said was when BUYING anything you can produce yourself, you have to factor in the cost of taxes on the equation. As I said, I have to factor in about 35% federal taxes + sales tax if I buy fuels. That makes my home produced, and used, fuel, or food, or whatever, significantly less expensive.

You can believe it or not.....

Gross income. --- net income.

Makes perfect sense.

 

[LD1]

OK....you put the work + the cost of the tractor/saw/splitter into selling your wood for $1500......(forget the taxes for the moment)...then spent an additional $500 to buy propane.

1. WHY would you do that.....spend 500 more than you have to ?

It has been explained many times though out this thread.
1. Cheaper insurance.
2. No danger from fire/smoke in the house.
3. More even/balanced heat instead of a hot spot in the room with the wood burner.
4. Dont have to worry about the fire going out in the middle of the night, or when away 14hrs a day for work
5. No chimney to worry about or clean
6. No mess in the house. Dust, bark, ashes, bugs, etc
7. I am sure there are a few other good reasons to not want to burn wood, But I'll stop here for now

2. WHERE did the other 500 come from ? Your job where you do actually pay taxes ? Maybe you beat the tax man on all your income......good for you.....I'm not that lucky.

Maybe. Maybe it came from my day job? Maybe I sold 13 cord of wood instead of 10? Maybe I inherited it? Maybe I found it laying on the ground.
Does it really matter. If Im holding $2000 in my hands, and $500 came from day job, and $1500 came from selling firewood, you are implying that the $500 is somehow different? That it somehow cost me more to acquire and that it should somehow be worth more. I dont view my money like that.

Like I said, you are making this way to technical/complicated. Taxes/no taxes/ figure it however you want.

Again, all I am simply saying is that wood (even if you cut it on your property for free) HAS VALUE.

Figure the VALUE of the wood you burn in a season. Compare THAT to other sources of heat. If you have good electric rates and geothermal or an efficient heat pump.....wood is probably costing you more money.

I cant figure this out for everyone. They have to figure it themselves. Because pricing is different everywhere. I enjoy cutting and splitting wood. But dont burn any. I heat my house for LESS money than the value of the wood I would have to burn.

I heat my house for $600 paid to the power company.
It would require 5-6 cord of wood a year to do the same. Which I sell for $800-$900
So according to my math, I am saving money, and still enjoying cutting. Win Win for me.

According to your math though, Buying my heat for $600 is actually costing me another 35%...or $810
And the value of my wood I sell is 35% less. Or ~$500-600

So by your logic it would seem wood is the cheaper heat source. And it just isnt

 

[Egon]

Most folks have income tax deducted from their pay checks. And they buy stuff with the after tax dollars.

So if they do something on their own they do not have to make more money than the product is worth.