Newbie needs help understanding Diesel fuel and transfer tanks!

[Plumber101010]

So I bought 2 - 100 gallon Delta white rectangle steel transfer tanks. One for diesel and one for gas. They are identical tanks but I'm putting gas in the diesel one. My exhaustive research has concluded I will not have an issue. I mounted them both on a small 4 x 6 flat trailer to carry mainly behind my SXS's on my property to fill things and also to my truck to make it easy come time to fill them.

As a prepper, I consider myself well versed in the art of fuel storage. I've actually written a few articles about it. I normally fill the tanks (30 gallon drums and 5 gal Jerry cans) and put them away for a couple years and never worry about them again. I've never had an issue using that fuel. As long as it's done the right way but that's not what this is about.

But for some stupid reason, I decided to get "all fancy" and tried to be "all that" when I honestly didn't need to, because my usage is not such that it mandates that type system.

So after mounting the tanks to the trailer, I also bought 2 Fill-Rite pumps. A 15 gpm and 13 gpm. Both tanks have both a water block filter first and particulate filter second. Hooked up new deep cycle battery and now had a mobile fuel station! I was proud.

Problem is ALL of my experience is in storage with no pumps and no "looking in on it" in cold weather every once in a while. Permanently seal it and forget is what I'm used to. So after the temperatures dipped down to around 10 degrees the last couple nights I looked inside the diesel tank and also crapped myself! I've used diesel that was two years old didn't look that bad!

VERY Cloudy, somewhat dark, a couple bugs floating on top. Just crappy looking. Keep in mind this tank and diesel is all brand new. 90 days old max. So before I take this and dump it out somewhere on my property, I don't know where, I have a few questions. And I also added both Sta-bil for diesel AND the Sta-bil stuff for algea prevention the biocide think it is.

1) Is this normal for Diesel in cold weather?

2) I pumped all of it out into 30 gallon drums and only got about 80 gals out of 100. Is that how much remains in a rectangle tank leaving the recommended minimum of 1 -1/2" space for suction tube? Was hoping for much more, as that always leaves 20 gallons of old fuel behind???

3) After parking the trailer on a severe angle I was able to get another 15 gallons out, but then I was even more shocked!!! The entire bottom of the tank has a 1 inch thick layer of frozen fuel! Huh? And it wasn't clear it looked like it was mixed with crap and dirt and things like that. Kind of hard to explain but let's just say it was very speckeled.

Is it normal to have that much water in new diesel already? Because I've never dealt with that quantity before, could 100 gallons produce that much water normally? Water is usually only formed over a period of time and mainly if you left the tanks partially empty for condensation to build? This tank was full almost to the very brim! Now I did use about 30 gallons out of it but it only sat like that for a month at most. Where is all this water coming from?

4) Last question vents. I don't use them. In fact despise them. Never use vents when I store fuel and I've always believed it leads to problems by sucking in air which leads to moisture. BUT...because these tanks are mobile and not stationary I decided to use them cuz bouncing around in the back of a trailer is bound to build up pressure.

Again I could be wrong because that's not my area and maybe the tanks are fine without. Could that be the culprit? Are these vents allowing water to get in via air? If I had to guess I would say there's about 3 gallons of water if not more. And they stay covered so it's not a rain issue.

This is all new territory to me so I appreciate any feedback I can get. I am so hoping everyone tells me this is perfectly normal... if not I got to figure out a way to get rid of 160 gallons diesel.

 

[LouNY]

At 10 degrees your diesel has gelled and dropped out a lot of waxes, after the fuel warms up to about 60 and has some agitation a
lot of the wax and gell will blend back in and you may have some biologics also. Your vents allow the tanks to breath which can bring in moisture,
Quite often the diesel you buy has a lot of crap in it. Power serve would help to keep the jelling down and a good biocide to keep the alges down.

 

[Redlands Okie]

I read that the tanks were new. But were they clean when you started. Caps left off and what not allows bugs into them. Were they being stored in a warehouse or out in a parking lot or some such.
Some gelling could be a issue. Sta-bil makes a anti gel and a stabilizer which are two separate products. Also makes another product to help with issues once it does gel up.
Venting could allow some condensation in the tank. But one would think that full tanks would not condensate a lot so not sure on that one.

P.S. the diesel you bought winter blend ? If you bought it 3 or so months ago is their a chance its summer blend with the resulting winter problems with it

 

[Plumber101010]

I read that the tanks were new. But were they clean when you started. Caps left off and what not allows bugs into them. Were they being stored in a warehouse or out in a parking lot or some such.
Some gelling could be a issue. Sta-bil makes a anti gel and a stabilizer which are two separate products. Also makes another product to help with issues once it does gel up.
Venting could allow some condensation in the tank. But one would think that full tanks would not condensate a lot so not sure on that one.

P.S. the diesel you bought winter blend ? If you bought it 3 or so months ago is their a chance its summer blend with the resulting winter problems with it

Good point about were they dirty when new! Well all I can say is I looked inside the tank but you can't see much looking through the 2 inch. Very limited and I didn't take a mirror or anything like that to check the rest out so I guess that is a distinct possibility.

I didn't use anti-gel because I heard it just doesn't get cold enough around here to use? Western North Carolina in the mountains. It gets cold but nothing that's ridiculous.

I don't have Sta-bil anti gel, only Sta-bil for diesel and Sta-bil biocide. It was a summer blend when filled. I do have Kleen winter diesel, but never used it I just use the regular Kleen in the gray bottle with evey refill and none in the transfer tank. And again because it just doesn't get cold enough long enough.

Yep Yes it will get down into single digits but only for the wee hours and then rises again into the mid 20's low 30's. That's pretty much all winter here.

It was particularly and unusually cold the last few nights so I'm sure that didn't help. But the gelling I have read about and didn't concern me as much, I mean it did, but not as much as the debris and the freezing on the bottom. Diesel is not going to freeze so that has to be the water that's freezing and I just can't imagine how that much water got in there.

So that's why I am asking for 100 gallons of diesel (never stored that much in one container before) is that type of water and debris in the fuel normal? If not then I won't worry too much about how it got in there. I will probably just dump the stuff somewhere on my property and go with new. Better safe than sorry. I'm sure it's not the most friendly thing to do the environment, but I can take my excavator and dig a deep hole and pour it in and fill it back up.

But this time I'lll fill with a clean tank, anti-gel, and I'm going to close the vent until I'm ready to pump! But cleaning out a tank that doesn't really have the best access for cleaning I cannot imagine is going to be the easiest task! I guess I could spray it out with water and let it all drain but that just sounds like a pain In the butt!

 

[90cummins]

Diesel does get cloudy when cold which you may never noticed before.
I’d add power service to the fuel and use the pump to mix the tank.
If needed pump the fuel into clean drums which would pass all the fuel thru the filter and water block.
If there was water in fuel the water bloc will stop flow.
Take a sample of fuel in a mason jar and bring it inside to warm up and settle. If water is in it you will see it.
If there is excessive water in it you could be set the fuel aside for use in warmer weather after treating the fuel or use it for heat or burning brush.
As far as cleaning the tank I would fill tank with 10 to 15 gallons of fuel and give it a shakeup then drain it into buckets. You can use your pump & filters to reuse the fuel rinsing the tank.
What fuel filter are you using?
In my system I have a 10 micron then a 2 micron then a water block.
I also add power service when tank is filled.


90cummins

 

[Plumber101010]

Diesel does get cloudy when cold which you may never noticed before.
I壇 add power service to the fuel and use the pump to mix the tank.
If needed pump the fuel into clean drums which would pass all the fuel thru the filter and water block.
If there was water in fuel the water bloc will stop flow.
Take a sample of fuel in a mason jar and bring it inside to warm up and settle. If water is in it you will see it.
If there is excessive water in it you could be set the fuel aside for use in warmer weather after treating the fuel or use it for heat or burning brush.
As far as cleaning the tank I would fill tank with 10 to 15 gallons of fuel and give it a shakeup then drain it into buckets. You can use your pump & filters to reuse the fuel rinsing the tank.
What fuel filter are you using?
In my system I have a 10 micron then a 2 micron then a water block.
I also add power service when tank is filled.


90cummins

Great advice!!!! Never even thought about recirculating the fuel through the tank, never even dawned on me. I love it

But why into a drum? Isnt recirculating the fuel withing the tank running it through the water block and particular filter, in fact I would think better because I'm running it through multiple times versus one time into a drum?

Goldenrod clear bowls, their standard three quarter-inch water block and particular filters sold everywhere. Thanks again! You may have saved me dumping out all that Diesel.

I also love the advice about cleaning it, that's called a very simple solution to a more complex issue than originally thought!!! Especially since I was in the middle of searching that question on this this same website and nobody offer that LOL!

I don't have any of that stuff but I'm hoping just recirculating it alone may take care of it for now. Being a plumber I understand things like the dirtier a filter gets, at least in a particulate, the better it will actually start to filter and since this is a brand new filter, recirculating it could help!

One more new question. I know you're supposed to leave the suction pipe 1 1/2" off bottom at least, i'm assuming so it doesn't suck up debris and water. But I also noticed this pipe has holes cut into the side (Metal telescopic).

I started thinking why not just have the suction pipe touch the bottom and use those slots on the side which is already an inch or more high? That would be a better design so you don't have to pull the thing out several times to measure.

One could just leave the pipe extended and as you push it down on the bottom it would slide up inside itself and the sides would automatically be one and a half inches of bottom. I guess I'm asking in a long winded way, if it's going to be off the bottom, why would there be open slots on the side?

Thanks again I thoroughly enjoyed reading your advice

 

[Langanobob]

Don’t dump that stuff “somewhere on your property.” People doing things like that is part of the reason why it became necessary for us to have an EPA. If the fuel turns out to be too far gone, maybe someone can filter it and use it for heating oil or a recycler will take it.

 

[LouNY]

Great advice!!!! Never even thought about recirculating the fuel through the tank, never even dawned on me. I love it

But why into a drum? Isnt recirculating the fuel withing the tank running it through the water block and particular filter, in fact I would think better because I'm running it through multiple times versus one time into a drum?

Goldenrod clear bowls, their standard three quarter-inch water block and particular filters sold everywhere. Thanks again! You may have saved me dumping out all that Diesel.

I also love the advice about cleaning it, that's called a very simple solution to a more complex issue than originally thought!!! Especially since I was in the middle of searching that question on this this same website and nobody offer that LOL!

I don't have any of that stuff but I'm hoping just recirculating it alone may take care of it for now. Being a plumber I understand things like the dirtier a filter gets, at least in a particulate, the better it will actually start to filter and since this is a brand new filter, recirculating it could help!

One more new question. I know you're supposed to leave the suction pipe 1 1/2" off bottom at least, i'm assuming so it doesn't suck up debris and water. But I also noticed this pipe has holes cut into the side (Metal telescopic).

I started thinking why not just have the suction pipe touch the bottom and use those slots on the side which is already an inch or more high? That would be a better design so you don't have to pull the thing out several times to measure.

One could just leave the pipe extended and as you push it down on the bottom it would slide up inside itself and the sides would automatically be one and a half inches of bottom. I guess I'm asking in a long winded way, if it's going to be off the bottom, why would there be open slots on the side?

Thanks again I thoroughly enjoyed reading your advice

Your fuel is quite usable adding the anti gell and possibly the 9-1-1 and circulating should clean it up. I would wait till summer to work with it the warmer weather will help immensely,
much of what you are seeing is the waxes and paraffin that is part of #2 fuel they are a large part of the increased btu's and lubricity of #2 fuel, #1 or kerosene has been distilled slightly more to too remove those particles. If you filter all of that out you will have created a fuel closer to #1, it is difficult to dissolve and reblend the waxes back into the fuel without heat. Some fuels will actually start to participate solids when it gets below 45 degrees F. Also I run my suction pipes right to the bottom of the tanks I want to catch any heavies in my tank filters and not let it build up till it creates a major problem at the worst times.

 

[Looking4new]

I would take the 'good' fuel off the top and then the contaminated fuel I would put into drums and use it to start brush piles on fire. BUT for sure DO NOT dump it on your property or anyone elses for that matter.
When you refill your slip tank, add Power Service in the white bottle in the amounts specified on the bottle and forget about it.
Does North Carolina even have seasonal diesel?

 

[Plumber101010]

Your fuel is quite usable adding the anti gell and possibly the 9-1-1 and circulating should clean it up. I would wait till summer to work with it the warmer weather will help immensely,
much of what you are seeing is the waxes and paraffin that is part of #2 fuel they are a large part of the increased btu's and lubricity of #2 fuel, #1 or kerosene has been distilled slightly more to too remove those particles. If you filter all of that out you will have created a fuel closer to #1, it is difficult to dissolve and reblend the waxes back into the fuel without heat. Some fuels will actually start to participate solids when it gets below 45 degrees F. Also I run my suction pipes right to the bottom of the tanks I want to catch any heavies in my tank filters and not let it build up till it creates a major problem at the worst times.

More good advice. So bottom out suction tube and you find those slots to be sufficiently large enough to pump well? Only one is metal, the other one PVC. Think I'll just buy another metal one. I hate the idea of leaving 20% of my capacity untouched in an emergency! Thanks for the reassurance also I can stil use Just went to buy the power service and said that looks familiar! Never realized PS was Kleen. Have a whole bottle here lol