Hand throttle setting - faster clutch wear? - gears only, no Shuttle Shift

[KY Gun Geek]

New employee has sparked a bit of a debate about the use of hand throttle.

First - we are talking about geared tractors only (specifically here a JD 5105 and a 5055d which are 50ish hp dry clutch with NO shuttle shift/power reverse/etc). I say this because the searches I've done turn up threads that seem to intertwine and confuse the operation of gear/clutch tractors with a SS or HST - Not looking for a comparison (an HST would probably render this discussion pointless) - please keep your replies focused on geared tractors only.

Function here is to pull a dump wagon on pavement through barns to collect muck from stalls then transport and dump in a field.

So the competing theories are as follows:

1) Set the hand throttle at around 1750 (tractors idle around 600 I think) and use the clutch to control movement.
The offered reason is that this is much easier for a less skilled employee to be smoother and therefore safer around buildings and people. Once wagon is loaded, speed is controlled withe the throttle - the limit being about 2300 rpm which is the indicated RPM for 540 rpm on the pto. If you need to go faster or slower, procedure would be set throttle to about 1750, stop the tractor (clutch in), change gears, clutch out and continue on.

2) Hand throttle all the way down to idle - control movement with clutch and foot throttle. Drive the tractor like a car (no hand throttle on a car!).
Control ground speed by choice of gear. Procedure a little different between the 2 tractors - the 5105 has syncros, the 5055d does not, so with the 5105 you push clutch in, switch gear, let clutch out, and can do so while moving to go faster. With the 5055, pick the gear before moving.

My opinion is that 1st approach is really hard on a dry clutch and will lead to early failure (and so is NOT my pick), but I do agree that it is easier (and maybe safer) for unskilled operators. Approach 2 seems to be as kind as possible to the clutch. Additionally, I don't like the idea of the tractor moving controlled by the hand throttle. The same unskilled operator may not stop as quickly in an emergency since they are used to driving cars that slow or stop if they take their foot of the accelerator. I also don't like the rpm up in tight spots - a slip of the clutch foot and the tractor will launch itself. I personally drive the tractor like a car, and only use the hand throttle if doing something like mowing or dragging a field (long periods of constant speed).

I understand there are lots of other debate points here (why hire employees who can't safely operate a tractor, or is it really safer), and I'm interested in those comments cause they might be fun, but try to keep the focus. The issue is really are we eating clutches faster by setting the idle high with the hand throttle.

There is some value in discussing the competing approaches regardless of the reasons why they exist. From my searches, there did seem to be some differences of opinion in the TBN nation...

Thanks!

 

[goeduck]

My opinion is that a clutch should always be engaged at as low an RPM as possible. I have both wet and dry clutches and I treat them the same, clutch at low RPM, then increase the RPM for the use.

 

[kthompson]

I agree with goeduck but in reading this I am not understating why so much stop and going in the barns. It seems you may need to slow down a little with the tractor when reading especially your first option. It can seem a waste of time to move slow with some jobs but wear, tear on equipment and safety to operator is worth slow and steady. I had run about same size tractor with dump trailer to move man a load of dirt and when trailer is loaded always started movement with foot throttle and low gear to get it rolling then shifted into higher gear again with foot throttle. No hand throttle at all.

 

[KY Gun Geek]

I agree with goeduck but in reading this I am not understating why so much stop and going in the barns. It seems you may need to slow down a little with the tractor when reading especially your first option. It can seem a waste of time to move slow with some jobs but wear, tear on equipment and safety to operator is worth slow and steady. I had run about same size tractor with dump trailer to move man a load of dirt and when trailer is loaded always started movement with foot throttle and low gear to get it rolling then shifted into higher gear again with foot throttle. No hand throttle at all.

Good question about the function
Barns are about 75' long. Tractor must be moved 2 or 3 times (straight line) if employees fork muck directly into wagon (otherwise they carry, lift, and dump muck tubs into wagon - an operation they do not like). Pavement goes through most barns, but one of them is a dead end - back in and forward out.

 

[Redlands Okie]

Hand throttle at higher RPM and in a smaller area seems like a accident waiting to happen. Damage to people, animals and equipment just not worth it. Safety first etc etc.

High rpm bound to be harder on the clutch when shifting. Clutch’s are expensive.

New drivers need some practice in safe area with cones as barriers or some such.

 

[Mace Canute]

Hand throttle at higher RPM and in a smaller area seems like a accident waiting to happen. Damage to people, animals and equipment just not worth it. Safety first etc etc.

High rpm bound to be harder on the clutch when shifting. Clutchç—´ are expensive.

New drivers need some practice in safe area with cones as barriers or some such.

^This^, in spades!

They should be using no more throttle than is necessary to prevent killing the engine when they engage the clutch and inside a building they should be using first gear at low rpms.

 

[rustyshakelford]

When growing up bailing hay we had geared tractors. The rpm was set for the pto and you used the clutch to stop and drop a bale and to start back again. Never had any clutch failures and they had lots of hrs. Sounds like a hydrostatic tranny would be a good fit for your operation

Brett

 

[Rustyiron]

Yeah, pull off the hand throttle and toss it. In a flat level barn, and at "in the barn" speeds I don't recall a tractor that would stall even at an idle even with a loaded trailer while in the proper trans gear/range. 1750 rpm (at engagement) will cause excessive clutch wear. If they are that bad with a clutch, I'd familiarize them with the range lever and have the rule be "X" range in the barn and "Y" range outside the barn. But remove the hand throttle, they'll learn to use a clutch properly.

 

[marchanna]

My manual says to avoid feathering or riding the clutch - not exact quote. With PTO driven equipment the engine is supposed to be up to speed during operation, and therefore stopping and starting would require clutching at higher RPMs.

From what I致e learned from my grandfather (he was a mechanic for 40 years in rural Ontario - fixed all the local tractors), and from what my manual says, it seems like the clutch should be either in or out, and while total number of lifetime clutch activations and rpm at which it is engaged will impact longevity, the bigger issue by far is with riding or feathering the clutch.

So I would say that, controlling fine movements at low speed with the clutch is the absolute worst thing you should be doing. However you decide to operate the tractor, with hand throttle or foot throttle, the clutch should be either in or out. And by that, I don稚 mean dumping the clutch to pull wheelies.

 

[bspeedy]

1750 rpm for slow movements in the barn with a 50+hp tractor is silly. Low range, low gear, idle speed. You could sidestep the clutch and not hurt things in low/low. Your farm hand is not knowledgeable enough about equipment to operate anything. Give him a shovel and a 5-gallon bucket.

 

[DK35vince]

My manual says to avoid feathering or riding the clutch - not exact quote. With PTO driven equipment the engine is supposed to be up to speed during operation, and therefore stopping and starting would require clutching at higher RPMs.

I always throttle down to start and stop, or forward/reverse even with PTO driven equipment engaged with a geared tractor.
Doesn't hurt the attachments a bit. Been doing it that way for decades.
So much easier on the clutch and the machine is so much less jumpy. No need to have it throttled up to forward/reverse, start/stop.

 

[marchanna]

Definitely a good case for throttling it down. Absolutely, it would be easier on the clutch, but I'm not sure it is outside the normal expected operating parameters of the clutch. The only PTO attachment I have right now, is a flail mower, and it would be a very awkward task to throttle it up and down every time I had to stop, especially in the tight and tricky areas. I'm always in low range when mowing, so I don't find it very jumpy.

 

[DK35vince]

IMO using the foot throttle vs the hand throttle for throttling up and down for start/stop-forward/reverse makes things much easier.
Especially in tight and tricky areas.
My hand throttle only gets used in large open areas where I'm going a 1 speed for longer periods of time.
80% of the time I use the foot throttle for better control. For loader work, snow plowing, mowing around trees/building, rototilling my garden, Etc.

 

[marchanna]

IMO using the foot throttle vs the hand throttle to throttle up and down for start/stop-forward/reverse makes things much easier.
Especially in tight tricky areas.
My hand throttle only gets used in large open areas where I'm going a 1 speed for a long time.
90% of the time I use the foot throttle for better control. For loader work, mowing around trees/building, Etc

Agreed, but when you're mowing at the same time, you want to keep the mower at a fixed speed. Follow what I'm saying?

When I do loader work, I usually use the foot throttle.

 

[DK35vince]

Agreed, but when you're mowing at the same time, you want to keep the mower at a fixed speed. Follow what I'm saying?

When I do loader work, I usually use the foot throttle.

I follow what you are trying to say.
But finish mowing and brush mowing in tight tricky areas I always use the foot throttle to slow down/speed up, forward/reverse as needed and it mows just fine.

 

[marchanna]

Fair enough. My flail mower needs the rpm to cut though.

 

[LouNY]

I set the hand throttle to the minimum engine rpm I need or want, when I'm hauling wagons I'll throttle down with the hand throttle when stopping use enough to come out with the clutch then when in high gear hand throttle up to engine rpm desired. I only use the foot feed to over ride the hand throttle when desired the hand throttle is the main. In a flat barn just moving along I'd be throttled down to 1000-1200 rpm, I sure don't want some one playing with the foot feed when their feet should be ready to clutch and brake.

 

[Texasmark]

I think you have enough answers to not need my contribution for #2 option, but here it is. Just ensure that the operator doesn't "ride the clutch" and let it all the way out after disengaging and keep foot pressure off it.

 

[goeduck]

Right, the clutch pedal is not a foot rest.

 

[mike69440]

My opinion is that a clutch should always be engaged at as low an RPM as possible. I have both wet and dry clutches and I treat them the same, clutch at low RPM, then increase the RPM for the use.

Very true. Slipping and riding a clutch will take it out quick.
I know I must take a toll on the wet and dry clutches of my GST L39 when plowing snow, forward and reverse at load and up to 2200 RPM, over and over again and again.
I'm pretty good letting the wet clutch take the majority of the slippage, but the machine will stall if you don't slip the dry just a bit when reversing in 10 or 11th gear. I do come to a complete stop before reversing. Not looking forward to having the clutches replaced eventually. The tractor has 2200 hours. and clutches seem fine. (I hope!)
I have a 600 HP mustang with 90 K, Factory clutch. We ran a Mazda +300K on the original OEM clutch. My 20 year old F-150 has clutch since original defective one was replaced under Ford warrantee. I've not had a recent vehicle that has not worn out before needing a clutch. I can only hope the same for my tractors.