Frozen DEF

[Liquidsilver]

I'm fairly certain I read in my 2016 Duramax's owners manual that the tank is designed to allow the DEF to freeze and that the vehicle could be operated normally, indefinitely. :-?

 

[3930dave]

Have you considered a battery blanket for your DEF tank? You could plug it in with your block heater. I'm sure there is way to do this if the tank is outside.

For a few reasons, I don't DEF yet.

I have an abiding general interest in most aspects of vehicle technology, and like to understand the pros/cons of all of them, especially if they can limit vehicle use, or shut it down altogether.

Cold weather operation can stress test systems to a greater extent than you might believe, if you live in a temperate climate. A simple example - windshield wiper transmissions (linkage between the motor and wiper arm) have been cost-optimized/under-engineering to the point that they regularly fail up here now when the arm encounters the slightest extra snow load or ice resistance.

I considered the option of using a battery blanket - relatively low surface temperature, so shouldn't be any issue with tank damage. I'd need to understand the tank cross-section better - a battery blanket would likely be better than nothing....

For what a new diesel road-vehicle costs today, all I know is I'd be seriously irritated if I encountered this issue.

Rgds, D.

 

[3930dave]

I'm fairly certain I read in my 2016 Duramax's owners manual that the tank is designed to allow the DEF to freeze and that the vehicle could be operated normally, indefinitely. :-?

I don't know for sure..... part of why I started this thread..... the recent comments I heard here in the real-world reminded me of this issue, which I'd been wondering about after hearing of DEF tank heater failures.....

I'd expect in MO that most of the time, the existing in-tank heaters will liquify the DEF by the time it's needed.

Before suggesting this following scenario, let me say that I'm not in favour of short-cycle cold weather runs with any diesel, New Tech or Olde School.....

OK, let's pretend - you have your Dmax in Northern Alberta in the dead of Winter. You're using it as a personal vehicle - short runs to work, and grocery getting. Without very extended idling, the intank heaters probably can't get enough heat into the tank to melt the DEF.

Comes down to the engine computer programming - can it go weeks or even months with the DEF frozen ? If you never hit high operating temperature for all that time (ergo, DEF is not needed ?) then maybe this really could be No Harm, No Foul ? I'd be a little surprised, but hey, you can program a 'puter to do pretty much anything, or nothing.....

There's lots I don't know about modern diesels - ex. What is the impact on the DPF of extended low temperature operation like I just described ? After a certain amount of continuous low temp operation like this, would a forced Regen occur (therefore requiring flowable DEF) ?

I'm not in N. Alberta, but if we continue having goofy Winter's like this, we'll still be having frozen DEF in April here :shocked:

Rgds, D.

 

[Trillium Farm]

Talking about short runs and diesels, I've had european diesels (Peugeot, Mercedes) and these cars came with a mask to place in front of the rad, I also see heavy trucks with this mask, but I've never seen a pick-up with this mask! Does this mask come with the truck and owners don't use it or is it totally absent. I think that this item could solve some of the problems.

 

[LouNY]

Talking about short runs and diesels, I've had european diesels (Peugeot, Mercedes) and these cars came with a mask to place in front of the rad, I also see heavy trucks with this mask, but I've never seen a pick-up with this mask! Does this mask come with the truck and owners don't use it or is it totally absent. I think that this item could solve some of the problems.

The RAM 1500 with the cold weather package does, mine has been on for several weeks now.

 

[3930dave]

Talking about short runs and diesels, I've had european diesels (Peugeot, Mercedes) and these cars came with a mask to place in front of the rad, I also see heavy trucks with this mask, but I've never seen a pick-up with this mask! Does this mask come with the truck and owners don't use it or is it totally absent. I think that this item could solve some of the problems.

I used to just stick cardboard behind the grille on my old carb'd gas Chev car years ago. Helped a bit. Many popular vehicles should have aftermarket grille covers available today. It's a good idea, esp. on diesels, and is part of why grille louvers/shutters are standard on some vehicles now - most noticeable on older Mack dump trucks.

On my one ton, I got some bulk cold-crack vinyl (what's used on Skidoo seats), had the wife run a basic seam on one end that I needed grommets on, and installed it on my diesel van. Not real pretty by some standards, but does the job and is standing up well. I also like that it mostly prevents the salt water we drown in on the roads this time of year from splashing directly on the rad. Also, small stone damage......

"Store-bought" vehicle-specific grille covers are tailor fitted, and usually have 2 or more small flap-doors - keep them closed if it's -40, or open them up for Winter towing or at the beginning/end of cold season....

Ex.:

Ford F15 Winter Grill Covers - Protect Your Ford F15 Truck Front Grill & Radiator w/Covers for Snow & Rain - XLT - 198 - 217

^ I've never used that product/supplier, just was the first search item reported.

Rgds, D.

 

[Trillium Farm]

The RAM 1500 with the cold weather package does, mine has been on for several weeks now.

Good to know, yet I've never seen one on any RAM 1500 here in southern Ontario, I guess people don't know how/when to use them.

 

[Trillium Farm]

I used to just stick cardboard behind the grille on my old carb'd gas Chev car years ago. Helped a bit. Many popular vehicles should have aftermarket grille covers available today. It's a good idea, esp. on diesels, and is part of why grille louvers/shutters are standard on some vehicles now.
"Store-bought" vehicle-specific grille covers are tailor fitted, and usually have 2 or more small flap-doors - keep them closed if it's -40, or open them up for Winter towing or at the beginning/end of cold season....Ex.:
Ford F15 Winter Grill Covers - Protect Your Ford F15 Truck Front Grill & Radiator w/Covers for Snow & Rain - XLT - 198 - 217
^ I've never used that product/supplier, just was the first search item reported.Rgds, D.

That may be why I don't see them, Those Louvers. That website shows something that all diesel owner should have if not already so equipped or without louvers

 

[3930dave]

That may be why I don't see them, Those Louvers. That website shows something that all diesel owner should have if not already so equipped or without louvers

Also used for aerodynamic reasons, even on small stuff.

Exploded view of Chevy Cruze "shutter" grille [w/video] - Autoblog

Rgds, D.

 

[Peter 315]

They used shutters on the old semi trucks , The engine fan was on all the time, newer trucks the fan has a clutch and is engage by the engine temp by air pressure