Alert on deck screws about mid 2012

   / Alert on deck screws about mid 2012 #1  

RalphVa

Super Member
Joined
Dec 19, 2003
Messages
7,885
Location
Charlottesville, VA, USA
Tractor
JD 2025R, previously Gravely 5650 & JD 4010 & JD 1025R
Recently, I decided to take up a couple of our deck boards to check on the gutters underneath. Our handy man, when he replaced the deck boards, put roofing rubber between the joists and sloped it so that it drains into a gutter that then flows to a rain tank underneath. I wanted to vacuum out any accumulated crud.

What I found was that quite a few of the titanium coated deck screws were corroded on their shanks. One actually broke off.

So, I bought some more screws and have been unscrewing them to expose the shanks and replacing any with the coating partly gone. Today, there were quite a few. I've finished off one new box of 66 screws.

The screws were put in about mid 2012. I intend to take them back to Lowes with a letter explaining what I found when I finish.

The risers on the stairs were not replaced. I unscrewed some of those screws (same kind: 10 x 3 with torx heads, the tapered head ones). Those were in beautiful shape. Think they date back to about mid 1990s when the deck was put in as part of the pool, etc.

So, any of you who bought any of these type screws around mid 2012 should remove some to expose the shanks. Strangely enough, the coating on the actual screw part is fine.

Ralph
 
   / Alert on deck screws about mid 2012 #2  
Good to know- do you have any pictures of the faulty deck screws? I built a pole barn in 2013 with the green/tan torx head screws that I bought from Lowe's and I am a little concerned. Were the deck boards treated?
 
   / Alert on deck screws about mid 2012 #3  
The ONLY deck screws that should be used with the newer ACQ treated lumber are stainless steel or hot dipped galvanized- no exceptions. This has been the case for many years. The newer treated wood has more copper in it to replace the arsenic that was used previously. There were lots of problems with the new wood until the manufacturers of fasteners like Simpson Strong Tie and others put out bulletins about proper fastener use. Personally, I use only S.S. torx drive screws and have had no problems. One 'could use' certain ceramic coated screws now, I suppose, if they meet the requirements of the PT wood, but why take a chance of a suspended deck collapsing to the ground, like happened in many instances early on with ACQ lumber disintegrating fasteners and screws/bolts?!
Simpson went so far as to say it wants Grace's Bituthene wrapped completely around any PT lumber, then install their S.S. or hot dipped hanger or tie to the joist,. etc.
Essentially, the newer PT lumber created a nightmare when it replaced the old PT with something with less deadly chemicals for wood with way more corrosiveness for anything made of metal coming in contact with it...
Buyer beware, educate oneself before using any product these days....

One of dozens of examples related to ACQ and fasteners:
What fasteners work with ACQ? | Tree Island Steel
 
Last edited:
   / Alert on deck screws about mid 2012
  • Thread Starter
#4  
The ONLY deck screws that should be used with the newer ACQ treated lumber are stainless steel or hot dipped galvanized- no exceptions. This has been the case for many years. The newer treated wood has more copper in it to replace the arsenic that was used previously. There were lots of problems with the new wood until the manufacturers of fasteners like Simpson Strong Tie and others put out bulletins about proper fastener use. Personally, I use only S.S. torx drive screws and have had no problems. One 'could use' certain ceramic coated screws now, I suppose, if they meet the requirements of the PT wood, but why take a chance of a suspended deck collapsing to the ground, like happened in many instances early on with ACQ lumber disintegrating fasteners and screws/bolts?!
Simpson went so far as to say it wants Grace's Bituthene wrapped completely around any PT lumber, then install their S.S. or hot dipped hanger or tie to the joist,. etc.
Essentially, the newer PT lumber created a nightmare when it replaced the old PT with something with less deadly chemicals for wood with way more corrosiveness for anything made of metal coming in contact with it...
Buyer beware, educate oneself before using any product these days....

One of dozens of examples related to ACQ and fasteners:
What fasteners work with ACQ? | Tree Island Steel

Had no knowledge of this. Our handyman did it back then. HOWEVER, the tread risers on the steps are original from about mid 1990s when they installed the deck and pool. They have the same screws, and they are fine.

Not even sure Lowes had the SS ones. Will be going to Home Depot Sunday (weather permitting) for something else. Will check there.

Ralph
 
   / Alert on deck screws about mid 2012
  • Thread Starter
#5  
Good to know- do you have any pictures of the faulty deck screws? I built a pole barn in 2013 with the green/tan torx head screws that I bought from Lowe's and I am a little concerned. Were the deck boards treated?

I can take some pictures. These are the 3'' size 10 screws with titanium coating much like they're doing drill bits with now. Some I replaced today even had the coating off the screw part. These are the ones with the bigger torx heads on them, e.g. tapered on the bottom and flat on top.

The ones removed from that first board today were the worst. The shanks had corroded down at least 1/4 to 1/3 of the diameter of the shank in about half of it down near the screw. Was working on 4 boards today at one point, extracting 8 screws to the screw part and replacing any with black corrosion showing. At one point, I had to replace 7 out of 8 screws.

According to the next post after yours, I should be replacing them with SS screws.

Ralph
 
   / Alert on deck screws about mid 2012 #6  
The ONLY deck screws that should be used with the newer ACQ treated lumber are stainless steel or hot dipped galvanized- no exceptions. This has been the case for many years. The newer treated wood has more copper in it to replace the arsenic that was used previously. There were lots of problems with the new wood until the manufacturers of fasteners like Simpson Strong Tie and others put out bulletins about proper fastener use. Personally, I use only S.S. torx drive screws and have had no problems. One 'could use' certain ceramic coated screws now, I suppose, if they meet the requirements of the PT wood, but why take a chance of a suspended deck collapsing to the ground, like happened in many instances early on with ACQ lumber disintegrating fasteners and screws/bolts?!
Simpson went so far as to say it wants Grace's Bituthene wrapped completely around any PT lumber, then install their S.S. or hot dipped hanger or tie to the joist,. etc.
Essentially, the newer PT lumber created a nightmare when it replaced the old PT with something with less deadly chemicals for wood with way more corrosiveness for anything made of metal coming in contact with it...
Buyer beware, educate oneself before using any product these days....

One of dozens of examples related to ACQ and fasteners:
What fasteners work with ACQ? | Tree Island Steel

This brings up an even bigger issue IMO...
common nails as well as gun nails are vulnerable to the chemicals in newer pressure treated lumber...
Typically framed walls on slabs employ PT bottom (shoe) plates...a common or non hot dipped nail can be reduced to residue in a short period of time because the chemical reaction...same goes for anchor bolts securing said plates to slabs/foundations etc...
 
   / Alert on deck screws about mid 2012
  • Thread Starter
#7  
The ONLY deck screws that should be used with the newer ACQ treated lumber are stainless steel or hot dipped galvanized- no exceptions. This has been the case for many years. The newer treated wood has more copper in it to replace the arsenic that was used previously. There were lots of problems with the new wood until the manufacturers of fasteners like Simpson Strong Tie and others put out bulletins about proper fastener use. Personally, I use only S.S. torx drive screws and have had no problems. One 'could use' certain ceramic coated screws now, I suppose, if they meet the requirements of the PT wood, but why take a chance of a suspended deck collapsing to the ground, like happened in many instances early on with ACQ lumber disintegrating fasteners and screws/bolts?!
Simpson went so far as to say it wants Grace's Bituthene wrapped completely around any PT lumber, then install their S.S. or hot dipped hanger or tie to the joist,. etc.
Essentially, the newer PT lumber created a nightmare when it replaced the old PT with something with less deadly chemicals for wood with way more corrosiveness for anything made of metal coming in contact with it...
Buyer beware, educate oneself before using any product these days....

One of dozens of examples related to ACQ and fasteners:
What fasteners work with ACQ? | Tree Island Steel

Do you know when ACQ lumber started? The original deck was built in the mid 1990s. The risers on the steps are from the original and has the same titanium coated screws.

I can replace the screws in the top boards replaced in 2012, but it would be a complete rebuild to get at the screws holding the joists in place and all.

Ralph
 
   / Alert on deck screws about mid 2012 #8  
SS screws are OK for some uses, but they are not as strong as a good coated or galvanized carbon steel screw, so beware. I use stainless screws on my pier and have to be much more careful driving them as it's easier to snap them or snap the head off. No mystery here, as stainless is softer than carbon steel.

In the last 6-7 years, I have been using the coated deck and construction screws, which normally come in green, tan, and gray. So far no problems, but if you ever reuse screws, beware that the coating will usually flake off when you reverse them out of wood, so they won't have full protection the next time around.
 
   / Alert on deck screws about mid 2012 #9  
Do you know when ACQ lumber started? The original deck was built in the mid 1990s. The risers on the steps are from the original and has the same titanium coated screws.

I can replace the screws in the top boards replaced in 2012, but it would be a complete rebuild to get at the screws holding the joists in place and all.

Ralph

Best I can recollect, I started seeing ACQ in 2002 or so, but that's a rough guess. I know we had the older CCA treated lumber when our first house was built in 2000.
 
   / Alert on deck screws about mid 2012 #10  
I only use stainless steel Torx head screws for treated wood now. I replaced ALL the coated deck screws twice after they rusted off, both times I fell for the latest marketing claiming they were for treated lumber. I buy the 5lb boxes of SS Torx screws from Home Depot.
 

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