?? About octane for mowers and chain saw

[MossRoad]

I don't know what liberal greenie site you found your numbers from. Here is the actual accurate facts. Avgas 100LL
This grade is the low lead version of Avgas 100. Low lead is a relative term. There is still up to 0.56 g/litre of lead in Avgas 100LL. This grade is listed in the same specifications as Avgas 100, namely ASTM D 910 and UK DEF STAN 91-90.

Avgas 100LL is dyed blue.

To read more about the fuel, download its MSDS now.

Avgas | Shell Global

What are you trying to say here? I used the exact same numbers you just quoted.

 

[MossRoad]

I plan to give up using my 30 gal. of 100LL per year, at the exact same time that the 159,000 piston powered aircraft across the USA are permanently grounded, for using their 225 million gallons of 100LL per year.
Tell me where I can buy non ethanol gas in the extreme Eastern part of Taxachusetts though, and I will give up 100LL tomorrow!

You said automotive non-ethanol is banned in your state, Massachusetts. Massachusetts is not on any list of states that bans it, that I can find. I also find at least 23 stations in Mass that sell ethanol free gas for automotive use. There are 8 on Cape Cod alone. How far east do you want to go?

https://www.hemmings.com/blog/2015/...anol-in-your-fuel-fewer-than-you-might-think/

Ethanol-free gas stations in the U.S. and Canada

Pure-Gas.org : Map of Ethanol-Free Gas Stations in the U.S. and Canada

There is absolutely no valid reason to run 100LL in anything. Non of your equipment requires it. All modern engines designed since lead was removed from gas is designed to run on 10% ethanol. If you'd follow common sense operating practices, as in shut of your fuel, run your carb dry, drain a fuel tank if its gonna be stored for more than 3 months(which is conservative), etc..., you'd never ever have an ethanol related issue.

 

[MossRoad]

Seriously, who hear has actually had a proven ethanol related issue other than some guy told you it was ethanol related? And I'm talking about modern engines, not antiques.

I've been running 87 octane 10% ethanol since 1984 in every piece of power equipment and automobile, toys, etc... that I've ever owned. We had one of the first ethanol plants in the country here, so it was common from the mid 80's.

I've had exactly ONE fuel line on a chainsaw gum up. I MAY be able to attribute that to ethanol, but I more likely will blame it on leaving a tank full of gas for a year.

My IH2500b tractor was a 4 cylinder gas engine that sat on our farm for 4-5 months at a time with untreated 87 octane 10% ethanol for 10 years. I'd shut off the fuel peacock at the tank and run it dry. Come operating time, I'd turn the fuel back on, crank it a few times, and boom, off it would go.

Cars, trucks, tractors, lawn mowers, chainsaws, weed eater, snow blowers, tiller, generator... not one provable ethanol related issue. Not one.

So, who's had the issues, what were the issues, and how did you prove the issue was caused by ethanol? Am I just that lucky that I've never had a problem, and no on in my family, my trusted mechanic, any of my employers, etc... have ever had ethanol issues?

 

[goeduck]

. All modern engines designed since lead was removed from gas is designed to run on 10% ethanol. If you'd follow common sense operating practices, as in shut of your fuel, run your carb dry, drain a fuel tank if its gonna be stored for more than 3 months(which is conservative), etc..., you'd never ever have an ethanol related issue.

Not to get in the middle between you and fried1765, but with me having 24 gas engines and 6 Diesel engines, running the 24 gas ones out of fuel every 3 months for a dry carb I would say that is a royal PITA. Understand your point, but not worth the hassle for me. Just my :2cents: I would rather buy non ethanol and run them once or twice a year at a minimum.

 

[4570Man]

Seriously, who hear has actually had a proven ethanol related issue other than some guy told you it was ethanol related? And I'm talking about modern engines, not antiques.

I've been running 87 octane 10% ethanol since 1984 in every piece of power equipment and automobile, toys, etc... that I've ever owned. We had one of the first ethanol plants in the country here, so it was common from the mid 80's.

I've had exactly ONE fuel line on a chainsaw gum up. I MAY be able to attribute that to ethanol, but I more likely will blame it on leaving a tank full of gas for a year.

My IH2500b tractor was a 4 cylinder gas engine that sat on our farm for 4-5 months at a time with untreated 87 octane 10% ethanol for 10 years. I'd shut off the fuel peacock at the tank and run it dry. Come operating time, I'd turn the fuel back on, crank it a few times, and boom, off it would go.

Cars, trucks, tractors, lawn mowers, chainsaws, weed eater, snow blowers, tiller, generator... not one provable ethanol related issue. Not one.

So, who's had the issues, what were the issues, and how did you prove the issue was caused by ethanol? Am I just that lucky that I've never had a problem, and no on in my family, my trusted mechanic, any of my employers, etc... have ever had ethanol issues?

If you're burning the fuel quickly and the tool in question never sits very long than ethanol fuel is probably fine. I might not use a small engine for months at a time and I can throw it on the corner and forget about it. Much less hassle than trying to treat it and run the engine dry ( which actually does little good ).

 

[swines]

Seriously, who hear has actually had a proven ethanol related issue other than some guy told you it was ethanol related? And I'm talking about modern engines, not antiques.

Seriously - I have.

Your experience is simply your empirical experience with your equipment and YOUR gas suppliers. It is not an irrefutable fact that can be ubiquitously applied applied to everyone everywhere.

I've had to rebuild the carburetors on two chainsaws and a 4-cycle lawnmower. For the lawnmower, I took the carburetor off of the mower, and took it to the dealer. They rebuilt the carburetor for me, as I have better things to do than futz with equipment. They directly attributed the carburetor problem to ethanol fuel that caused gummed up jets and some internal passages that were gummed. They also replaced the diaphragm because it was gummed up.

I tried using a variety of gas treatments for gas with ethanol, and still ended up with carburetors that were badly gummed up. I have drained the equipment, run it out of fuel and the residual gas has gummed up parts of the carburetors.

I have eight pieces of equipment and don't want to waste my time anymore doing the ethanol fuel dance with every piece of equipment - and then still end up with inoperable equipment.

My choice is to use either Torco or VP unleaded 100 octane gas. It's expensive, I don't care. I'll spend the money to avoid the aggravation of equipment that won't work when I need it, and then the amount of my time I have to spend rectifying the situation - as time really is money.

BTW. Where I live, none of the local fixed base operators will sell LL aviation gas to people who take it off airport. They will only sell gas to aircraft operators.

 

[daugen]

I have over 20 small pieces of equipment with gas engines, and the first decade of ethanol gas was not good at all.
The question is asked, how to prove it was the ethanol that caused the problem. Well, we aren't forensic mechanics here..., but all I can say is after half a dozen gummed up carbs and non starters in the Spring, I went over totally to non ethanol. I can only speak for myself, and even before E0 I religiously dosed engines with Stabil and Sea Foam and still had problems.

Might have something to do with geography too. Here, I'm in a warm moist environment, good for condensation in tanks. The more water, the more problems and ethanol seems to make it much worse.

I have five Echo 2 strokes, weedeaters, brush trimmers, chain saws, etc. Every one starts right up using that canned gas. I stock up on sale for 5 or 6 bucks a can, and wow does that work nicely. Huge improvement in starting for two strokes. I don't do enough chain sawing any more to warrant making up my own fuel.

How many of us have dumped out a half full can of prepped two cycle because it got too old? You make up a gallon, or two, and many of us don't go through it fast enough. With severe arthritis, I just can't be yanking on that pull cord too much.
All I know is it works.

I'm blessed as far as gasoline, corner grill down the street has a premium non ethanol tank, currently $2.99 a gallon.

 

[fried1765]

You said automotive non-ethanol is banned in your state, Massachusetts. Massachusetts is not on any list of states that bans it, that I can find. I also find at least 23 stations in Mass that sell ethanol free gas for automotive use. There are 8 on Cape Cod alone. How far east do you want to go?

https://www.hemmings.com/blog/2015/...anol-in-your-fuel-fewer-than-you-might-think/

Ethanol-free gas stations in the U.S. and Canada

Pure-Gas.org : Map of Ethanol-Free Gas Stations in the U.S. and Canada

There is absolutely no valid reason to run 100LL in anything. Non of your equipment requires it. All modern engines designed since lead was removed from gas is designed to run on 10% ethanol. If you'd follow common sense operating practices, as in shut of your fuel, run your carb dry, drain a fuel tank if its gonna be stored for more than 3 months(which is conservative), etc..., you'd never ever have an ethanol related issue.

Well.... you are technically correct!
There are apparently some places on Cape Cod that may/do sell non ethanol gas.
Closest one to me is 17 miles away, and sells "non ethanol pre-mix" in individual gallon containers, at an absurd price.
I wonder how that non ethanol PRE-MIX would work in my 8N or 3400 ?
Next closest non ethanol is 40 miles away (80mi. Round trip).
Next is 45 miles away at $15 per gal. (90 mi.)
Another 45 mi. away at $24 per gal. (90 mi.)
"NO NON ETHANOL GAS IS DISPENSED IN MA. FROM A PUMP" (except on an airport)
The above options might be acceptable to you, but they are not realistic for me!

 

[MossRoad]

And to that I say, I remember lawnmowers, riding tractors, cars, etc... being left with fuel in them for long periods of time back in the 60s and 70s, well before ethanol, having their carbs gummed up from what old timers said "the fuel went bad". Take care of your equipment, follow the manufacturers instructions, use the fuel they recommend, etc...

Pretty much every chainsaw manufacturer tells you to drain the tank if you're not going to use it for a while.
The correct way to store chain saws: Instruction | STIHL | STIHL

Checklist: Storing your chainsaw correctly | STIHL Blog

Chain Saw Maintenance & Storage – Monkeysee Videos
(although this factory rep Echo guy is pouring gas indoors, yeesh!)

Let's face it. No one wants to do what's proper because its an inconvenience.

 

[Ford850]

Every Stihl engine I have requires "minimum 89 octane rating" for fuel per the manuals. The oldest manual I have is 18 years old, but they all say the same thing - 89 octane.
As for ethanol causing issues, I think we definitely have more issues since it has been in use. That doesn't prove it's the cause though. As I understand it gas has other new additives other than ethanol. Stale gas is stale gas, and it causes varnish and gunk. Add to that the newer carb designs to meet EPA regs, and it's difficult to pin modern carburetor problems on one thing. Ethanol does collect water if stored for long periods or stored incorrectly, which can cause it's own issues.