Hardware for Thumb fabrication

   / Hardware for Thumb fabrication #1  

liberty2701

Platinum Member
Joined
Sep 8, 2011
Messages
602
Location
Lakes region,NH
Tractor
Kioti Dk50se hst
I would like to convert my mechanical thumb to a hydraulic thumb on my excavator (18klb) It presently has a solid arm with 2" pins. I will need to buy a piston and a bracket that I could weld to the thumb to retain the hydraulic cylinder end. Plus i will need some bushings to go from 2"od to 1" id for the other end of the cylinder. That is if my piston has a 1' PIN. Any suggestion as to who would sell what I need? Here are some pictures of my thumb.
 

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   / Hardware for Thumb fabrication #3  
   / Hardware for Thumb fabrication
  • Thread Starter
#4  
I will read through it. Thanks
 
   / Hardware for Thumb fabrication #5  
I made my thumb for my backhoe. Mine is a Case 580K with extend a hoe. I was limited as to space for a hydraulic cylinder when retracted. Geometry was largely trial & error. I thought it'd be a shortcut to cut up half a claw from a log truck cherry picker. That proved to be a mistake.
As my cylinder mount, I used two trailer hitch ball mounts. This allowed me to place welding stresses on the side of the dipper stick where it is less likely to cause cracking. I welded thumb mounts in a similar manner near the bucket pivot. If I had it to do again, I'd pivot the thumb on a longer bucket pin.

As for pivots, pins & bushings: use DOM (drawn over mandrel) tubing, and cold rolled shafting.

Steel need not be exotic stuff, but if you will grip boulders, figure out a way to harden the tips of the thumb. I like manganese welding rod, it work hardens, and you can build up in layers.

I buy steel from Mac Steel in Rutland VT. You may have a good supplier nearer you.

Willie
 
   / Hardware for Thumb fabrication
  • Thread Starter
#6  
I am actually looking to modify my fixed thumb to hydraulic. The excavator is plumbed so all I need is a piston and some steel plate to fabricate the mounts for the piston. I think I settled on a 3" bore,1.75" shaft with a welded cylinder and 1" pin cross tube type ends. I looked around online at other manufactures as to what piston sizes and how they fabricated the brackets. I have a stick welder and plan on using 7018 rods. My only question is preheating the thumb when I weld the brackets to it. I assume ar plate is standard? The steel thickness on the thumb is 3/4". Do i have to use ar plate for the cylinder mounting brackets or just cold rolled steel plate?
 
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   / Hardware for Thumb fabrication #7  
I have considered a Thumb for my hoe and thought I would make a "U" shaped bracket and install it from the side with pinch bolts clamping it in place making it adjustable and not having to weld on the stick.
Welding cylinder mount on side of the "U".
 
   / Hardware for Thumb fabrication #8  
I am actually looking to modify my fixed thumb to hydraulic. The excavator is plumbed so all I need is a piston and some steel plate to fabricate the mounts for the piston. I think I settled on a 3" bore,1.75" shaft with a welded cylinder and 1" pin clevis type ends. I looked around online at other manufactures as to what piston sizes and how they fabricated the brackets. I have a stick welder and plan on using 7018 rods. My only question is preheating the thumb when I weld the brackets to it. I assume ar plate is standard? The steel thickness on the thumb is 3/4". Do i have to use ar plate for the cylinder mounting brackets or just cold rolled steel plate?

I'd be quite surprised if your dipper is more exotic than hot rolled steel. Unless you have found otherwise, preheat to 250 F, enough to dissipate most water. Use welding candles, IR heat thermometer, or spit to confirm temp.
 
   / Hardware for Thumb fabrication
  • Thread Starter
#9  
You see in my third picture above the plate runs the whole width of the dipper and it is 1/2" thick 7" wide. I took a round medium bastard file to the edge and it took the steel right off. I assume this is not hard plate and is regular steel like you stated. This would mean standard weld practices would apply?
 
   / Hardware for Thumb fabrication #10  
You see in my third picture above the plate runs the whole width of the dipper and it is 1/2" thick 7" wide. I took a round medium bastard file to the edge and it took the steel right off. I assume this is not hard plate and is regular steel like you stated. This would mean standard weld practices would apply?

Might you get any information from the thumb manufacturer, or the dipper manufacturer? I misread the size of your machine. This would be considered an 8 ton machine as excavator model numbers all include metric tonnage.

The safe thing would be to treat the dipper as high strength steel. This means using filler metal that is very ductile. Preheat provides three benefits.

Distortion: welds shrink a lot when they cool. If the workpiece is expanded somewhat before weld is applied, it too will shrink as it cools, greatly reducing stress which is where cracks begin. If everything is hot at the onset, there will be less change in the shape.

Hydrogen: As welds cool hydrogen atoms migrate to the perimeter of the molten steel. If this is well defined, it forms a surface, (think of non stick coating on a frying pan), preventing effective fusion. Hot workpiece means most of the hydrogen has been driven off, and cooling will be more gradual, meaning the deposit of hydrogen molecules will be dispersed, not forming a barrier.

Slow cooling: Crystal structure is very different depending largely on carbon content, and cooling rate. Fast cooling makes the structure of crystals more Martensitic, (brittle, and hard) Slower cooling makes steel more Austenitic, (ductile, and tough).

Experts will disagree as to optimum temperature for preheat. I'd say 300 F at least 700F might be pushing it. Dippers break after being welded, and all the extra precaution in the world is not too much if you can avoid a break.

I have a friend who lives in a city in another state. When he comes to his getaway place in VT he loves to rent equipment, and play. He called one rainy evening; he broke the shiny thing on the front. I went to look. The bucket cylinder rod did indeed have a 45 degree curve in it, and was broken clean. In the dark, in the rain with a weak flashlight, I could barely see a triangle of black where the orange dipper should be. He had cracked it open, only the front of the dipper bent instead of breaking.

I've seen that machine several times since. The rental company keeps doing crude weld repairs, and sending it out on yet another rental. It has been broken, and "patched several times. A competent weldor could fix it once.

In your case I suggest a skilled weldor use 7018 Fresh from a sealed container, or oven. A less skilled weldor such as myself might resort to Dual Shield MIG to come close to maximum strength. In either case, avoid fillers with tensile strength over 70,000. It'll only pull weld away from workpiece as it cools. Also, weld strength improves after a minor stretch. I think of tensile strength as Rope vs cable. Rope will "give" a bit , but hold. Cable frays if strained, and weakens. High tensile fillers tear away from work metal, ductile fillers give a bit, and gain strength.
 

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