The perfect tractor.

[claywesttech]

How are you controlling the payment unless you have tons of money and are owner financing it? I would think such a deal would be payment in full upon pick up and any financing would be between them and the bank.

Yes we plan to factory finance. We will not have dealerships in the traditional sense. We feel that if we build a solid enough machine, an asset on our books is an asset on your books. We both feel that car and tractor dealerships alike are unecissary middle men. We may even do connex container delivery, with only the wheels uninstalled. But again we are in research phase. We have nothing past concept drawings and research information. Thus my original post. I will post after a month or so of open answering to this forum regarding the results of our survey and our conclusions from feedback of the wealth of experience. We have many threats and opportunities to market entry. For a small place to make it we may have to corner a sub niche. We will never be able to outmarket larger places or outproduce cookie cutter stuff. But our business model isnt to sell you another after the first one is paid off or make money on servicing. One step at a time. It doesn't cost us anything to gather information.

 

[claywesttech]

I have no tracks. It's a wheeled machine. My top speed is 8, which is great for getting around the place fast when transporting heaping buckets of material, or dragging logs, plowing snow, mowing, etc... but with 4 hydraulic wheel motors driven by one variable volume pump, you have to pick a speed based on the displacement of the wheel motors. Large wheel motors give low speed/high torque, while smaller displacement wheel motors give higher tram speed at the expense of low-end torque.

There's not an economically feasible way to get high/lo range in my type of machine.

We will most likely have to sacrifice "road" gear, for low end torque. Our primary focus is to make the machine last for as long as possible. Cv transmissions are very efficient at transferring torque even for gas motors. They make hydrostatic transmissions for combines, so scaling up and getting torque and turning large wheels is very possible. We are looking at something similar to a torque converter or liquid coupling for each wheel. They deal with shock and changes well, and we like the idea of several small modular bolt on parts that one man can carry, as opposed to a 400 lb tranfer case. Most of the tractor drive train should be quick connect hydraulic couplings and 4-6 large bolts.

 

[M5farms]

How would issues be handled , Crate it back up and ship it back to the factory and your without a machine for weeks maybe months ??? all the quality controls in the world will not prevent failures.

 

[aczlan]

We will most likely have to sacrifice "road" gear, for low end torque. Our primary focus is to make the machine last for as long as possible. Cv transmissions are very efficient at transferring torque even for gas motors. They make hydrostatic transmissions for combines, so scaling up and getting torque and turning large wheels is very possible. We are looking at something similar to a torque converter or liquid coupling for each wheel. They deal with shock and changes well, and we like the idea of several small modular bolt on parts that one man can carry, as opposed to a 400 lb tranfer case. Most of the tractor drive train should be quick connect hydraulic couplings and 4-6 large bolts.

Note that you are better off using a fitting (such as a JIC fitting) rather than a quick connect. Quick connects disrupt the flow of fluid and cause heat.
Eaton makes a 2 speed hydraulic wheel motor: http://www.eaton.com/ecm/groups/public/@pub/@eaton/@hyd/documents/content/pct_430501.pdf

Aaron Z

 

[claywesttech]

How would issues be handled , Crate it back up and ship it back to the factory and your without a machine for weeks maybe months ??? all the quality controls in the world will not prevent failures.

The barriers to entry into a small tractor market, regarding logistics and servicing do exist. We are still in the concept design and research phase.

If you would like to help, tell us what horror stories you have had with other machines and dealers, and reply to the survey so that we can gather as much information as possible.

"Ideally" our machine will be entirely serviceable at home, all common parts should be easy to find at any autoparts store.

Anything that is not self serviceable, should be modular and easy to remove. From the engine down to the wheel drives. Those parts should be able to be fully replaced and shipped to the customer as soon as you have an issue.

We cannot hope compete with the large manufacturers in the market of people who take their stuff to the dealership for every 45 minute job.

But we feel we can be cost competative and provide a better built machine if we make the self service so simple that we can eliminate the middleman entirely.

Optimally we only have to ship pop and swap parts to customers that can be rebuilt at the factory without a core charge, with everything else being available online from us factoy direct at cost or if needed that day bought at an autoparts store which of course has its markups.

We want to remove as many middlemen as possible between the machine maker and the end user. The consumer will save financially but will have to service his own machine. Which should still fail far less often, and far less critically than the korean, indian and chinese built, plastic wrapped economy machines. That come in orange red and green.

 

[claywesttech]

Note that you are better off using a fitting (such as a JIC fitting) rather than a quick connect. Quick connects disrupt the flow of fluid and cause heat.
Eaton makes a 2 speed hydraulic wheel motor: http://www.eaton.com/ecm/groups/public/@pub/@eaton/@hyd/documents/content/pct_430501.pdf

Aaron Z

Thank you for the help. Quick connect is a blanket term i used incorrectly. Jic are industry standard in many applications. We want to reduce heat and cavitation as much as possible.

Our background is from nuclear/chemical plants, and we want to use as many industrial grade fittings as possible so long as they are easy to find locally due to this tractor being mostly self serviced. The availability to the average joe and durability is a difficult thing to balance.

The "plumbing" so to speak is something we know we will get right. We even want to use stainless boss fittings for the radiator.

 

[Doofy]

Is this for Real or a pipe dream? Interesting concept.

 

[Thomas]

Basic...less sensors and safety switches.

 

[claywesttech]

Hi. Im an entreprenuer, inventor, and think tank member. Myself and a parter of mine at work have collaborated on a few ideas and were both recently discussing the idea of prototyping a bulletproof hobby farm tractor. I/E a tractor like those of old that will run forever with easy maintenance and the owner can perform all major maintenance with shops that exist in every garage.

We dont want to reinvent the wheel and decades of innovation and evolution of the family farm tractor.

We would simply like to build a 35-60hp tractor that takes the best assets of the past and merge them into one machine that would essentially be a one time purchase 100 year life expectancy tractor.

If the prototype is successful we would like to start a small business.

Right now we are in the research phase to establish a need and a market for such a machine.

So how can you help make our research make it to the design stage?


Below, please answer the 7 questions as simply as possible for our prelimary research.

Remember 60 hp and below, the more hours and years on your equipment the better we will be able to design.

1. What tractor that you have experience with is considered the most reliable after the most years of service or hard use?


2.What functions on your tractor have been broken the longest?

3.What are the most annoying/dangerous and uncomfortable thing about your machine?

4. What maintenance have you performed that was more difficult, came too often, was unusually expensive, or too time consuming to be considered practical?

5. If your tractor were to be found in a field 100 years from now, what things would still be functional?

6. What in your personal opinion is the most RELIABLE gas or diesel engine ever to be found on a 30-60 hp tractor?

7. Finally. What machines of the past do you consider the most bulletproof and easiest to maintain for someone whom hasnt been formally trained as a mechanic?

I would like to clarify some confusion on the goal of the build so that i can avoid many future well meaning replys.

Everyone who tinkers in the shop and owns a newer vehicle has the complaint that everything built now adays requires dealer service or is nearly impossible to fix and maintain with common tools. The dealers intentionally do this for service fees, and to sell extended warrantys.

Our goal is to build a modern tractor that the average mechanic can maintain indefinately at home. This eliminates lots of middlemen between the factory and the owner, as well as provides a tractor that will be around for generations.

There are plenty of gas and diesel tractors alike that are still running after 50 60 70 years. Not because they were built perfectly, but with the idea that americans could keep them running with stuff from the hardware store.

Our goal is to build the second generation of this machine.

 

[claywesttech]

Is this for Real or a pipe dream? Interesting concept.

Everything real starts as a pipe dream. This whole world and every system in it was built by people no smarter than you and i.

We both have owned small businesses, we are both veterans. i went to school for management and have worked for nuclear plants and currently the corps of engineers. We are dipping our toes in the water on this forum to understand needs. And if the need trully exists we will design and price for the prototype.

Tractors are simple machines. We dont have to reinvent the wheel. All that has to be done is combine systems that have been working for decades with modern materials. Two guys can take the time to build what we would want, whereas large corporations cannot afford to take that time and care.