The perfect tractor.

[M5farms]

I would like to clarify some confusion on the goal of the build so that i can avoid many future well meaning replys.

Everyone who tinkers in the shop and owns a newer vehicle has the complaint that everything built now adays requires dealer service or is nearly impossible to fix and maintain with common tools. The dealers intentionally do this for service fees, and to sell extended warrantys.

Our goal is to build a modern tractor that the average mechanic can maintain indefinately at home. This eliminates lots of middlemen between the factory and the owner, as well as provides a tractor that will be around for generations.

There are plenty of gas and diesel tractors alike that are still running after 50 60 70 years. Not because they were built perfectly, but with the idea that americans could keep them running with stuff from the hardware store.

Our goal is to build the second generation of this machine.

I agree that what you are envisioning is a great concept but lets face the facts that the vast majority can even not change their own oil so the demographics you would be targeting would be a generation that likely does not have 12 yrs left to pay for a new machine or they are quite content with servicing older equipment. The younger generations does not want to work on anything as they are accustomed to a use it up throw it away world.

 

[Doofy]

Yes, simplicity and longevity will be the key but I think meeting EPA and Federal regs will be the biggest hurdle. You build it and if affordable I would buy it. The Pinto was a fun little car and the Corvair was a hoot to drive but Gov't killed them off.

 

[Doofy]

I agree that what you are envisioning is a great concept but lets face the facts that the vast majority can even not change their own oil so the demographics you would be targeting would be a generation that likely does not have 12 yrs left to pay for a new machine or they are quite content with servicing older equipment. The younger generations does not want to work on anything as they are accustomed to a use it up throw it away world.

My sentiments also. I won't live long enough to buy one and young folks of today seem uninterested.

 

[claywesttech]

I agree that what you are envisioning is a great concept but lets face the facts that the vast majority can even not change their own oil so the demographics you would be targeting would be a generation that likely does not have 12 yrs left to pay for a new machine or they are quite content with servicing older equipment. The younger generations does not want to work on anything as they are accustomed to a use it up throw it away world.

I agree, especially with the majority of the us population migrating to cities. However i would like to hypothesize that part of the cause of people knowing less is due to dealers in cars and machines taking over so much service work. And people are paying a premium more for it in hidden costs.

I believe that there might be enough..

shade tree mechanics

Disaster peppers

Green energy off the grid people

And guys with 20 head of cattle that don't want to pay 35k for 35hp

left in the country that there should be a base market enough to keep two guys busy assembling from our design.

 

[woodlandfarms]

In no particular order. You really need to look at Power-Trac tractors and the business model they use and see how it is so similar to what you are trying to attain. This is a company that checks all the boxes you want checked. If you have any chance of attracting money to build enough tractors to create a profit, you would instead walk your investors down to PT, purchase the factory and its designs, make some updates per your engineering expertice and continue to make a profit for your investors. I can drag you into the details of the company, but suffice to say there is someone already doing what your goal is. No one here wants to shoot down dreams, but most of the negative comments are quite real. The vast majority of people in this group are those who do not use a tractor for a living, Some are mechanically inclined, some are not. PT is a great example of what happens with off the shelf component tractors. They become good at everything and great at nothng. For me this is fantastic, and probably for a majority of the people in this group if they tried a PT they would consider very hard switching. Its a fantastic group of machines that check a lot of boxes. But to keep the company alive, the "off the shelf" components turned unprofitable. If you look at tractor manufacturing, it is parts and service that keep a company afloat. PT found this out the hard way, and now they remove the numbers from the off the shelf compononents so you can't just walk in a store and get parts (even thought the parts are off the shelf and it is one of the ways PT is able to offer such great machines at a relatively low cost). Anyway, I think your idea is grand, I just don't see executing it in this current economic environment in a profitable way. We can all sit down and list all the things we hate about our machines, and we all have complaints, but there is no way you will be able to profitably manufacture a machine to make any of us happy. Buy and existing company, make it better (PT could sure use an inovator, the basic design has not changed since the first machine was manufactured).

 

[claywesttech]

Yes, simplicity and longevity will be the key but I think meeting EPA and Federal regs will be the biggest hurdle. You build it and if affordable I would buy it. The Pinto was a fun little car and the Corvair was a hoot to drive but Gov't killed them off.

We may be able to get away with something hydraulic driven from a gas motor.

You dont need nearly as much low rpm torque if you drive a pump instead of a wheel.

And that could get us around teir 4 diesel emissions, and let us couple an efficient long living, quiet japanese bolt on engine that can be replaced easily or upgraded.

 

[claywesttech]

In no particular order. You really need to look at Power-Trac tractors and the business model they use and see how it is so similar to what you are trying to attain. This is a company that checks all the boxes you want checked. If you have any chance of attracting money to build enough tractors to create a profit, you would instead walk your investors down to PT, purchase the factory and its designs, make some updates per your engineering expertice and continue to make a profit for your investors. I can drag you into the details of the company, but suffice to say there is someone already doing what your goal is. No one here wants to shoot down dreams, but most of the negative comments are quite real. The vast majority of people in this group are those who do not use a tractor for a living, Some are mechanically inclined, some are not. PT is a great example of what happens with off the shelf component tractors. They become good at everything and great at nothng. For me this is fantastic, and probably for a majority of the people in this group if they tried a PT they would consider very hard switching. Its a fantastic group of machines that check a lot of boxes. But to keep the company alive, the "off the shelf" components turned unprofitable. If you look at tractor manufacturing, it is parts and service that keep a company afloat. PT found this out the hard way, and now they remove the numbers from the off the shelf compononents so you can't just walk in a store and get parts (even thought the parts are off the shelf and it is one of the ways PT is able to offer such great machines at a relatively low cost). Anyway, I think your idea is grand, I just don't see executing it in this current economic environment in a profitable way. We can all sit down and list all the things we hate about our machines, and we all have complaints, but there is no way you will be able to profitably manufacture a machine to make any of us happy. Buy and existing company, make it better (PT could sure use an inovator, the basic design has not changed since the first machine was manufactured).

Thank you for the insight, i will research this company. Finding the right niche is key to sucess. As well as believing in what you do and being genuine.

 

[M5farms]

I agree, especially with the majority of the us population migrating to cities. However i would like to hypothesize that part of the cause of people knowing less is due to dealers in cars and machines taking over so much service work. And people are paying a premium more for it in hidden costs.

I believe that there might be enough..

shade tree mechanics

Disaster peppers

Green energy off the grid people

And guys with 20 head of cattle that don't want to pay 35k for 35hp

left in the country that there should be a base market enough to keep two guys busy assembling from our design.

Yes part of it is technology has surpassed simple shade tree guy , In 20 years today technology will be crude .

Shade tree mechanics become so because of their thriftiness and ability to make old stuff work , spending money on something new is not what they do .

preppers might be a good target as log as you have a gun turret on it .

tree huggers will frown at fossil fuels and will need massive solar panels or huge batteries

A guy with 20 head needs a bigger tractor and will buy used most of the time .

you can find a market im sure but as another poster put it your going to want to make a profit so your price is likely to be on par with the Big Boys because building a few does not allow you to source material at discount for large quantities and the shop time to build it will be hefty price.

I am not trying to discourage you only giving things that are going to be hurdles . Ive been on a tractor since I was a small child , I own a few and the size your talking about is just a tractor for weekend warriors that have the money to spend on nice stuff . they play hard and tractor work is only a small part of the many things they do. Ballgames, beach trips, PTA meeting hunting fishing etc . Most people want it to crank up and work when they have time to use it not work on it their time is too valuable . I spend alot of hours in a seat of a tractor and i DO NOT farm fulltime . I personally would not consider an unknown manufacture. I also would not spend new price on a tractor either .

 

[fried1765]

The barriers to entry into a small tractor market, regarding logistics and servicing do exist. We are still in the concept design and research phase.

If you would like to help, tell us what horror stories you have had with other machines and dealers, and reply to the survey so that we can gather as much information as possible.

"Ideally" our machine will be entirely serviceable at home, all common parts should be easy to find at any autoparts store.

Anything that is not self serviceable, should be modular and easy to remove. From the engine down to the wheel drives. Those parts should be able to be fully replaced and shipped to the customer as soon as you have an issue.

We cannot hope compete with the large manufacturers in the market of people who take their stuff to the dealership for every 45 minute job.

But we feel we can be cost competative and provide a better built machine if we make the self service so simple that we can eliminate the middleman entirely.

Optimally we only have to ship pop and swap parts to customers that can be rebuilt at the factory without a core charge, with everything else being available online from us factoy direct at cost or if needed that day bought at an autoparts store which of course has its markups.

We want to remove as many middlemen as possible between the machine maker and the end user. The consumer will save financially but will have to service his own machine. Which should still fail far less often, and far less critically than the korean, indian and chinese built, plastic wrapped economy machines. That come in orange red and green.

Your philosophy seems to be very similar to that of Everything Attachments.
They sell everything they make, directly you, the customer.
They advertise that they have no dealers, no distributors, or representatives.
They advertise free shipping within 1000 miles (item not taxed if shipped interstate)
Their product videos are excellent.
ETA seems to have developed a cult like following, with many repeat customers.
Their products are much more basic than a complete tractor, but they are using a marketing concept very similar to what you propose,...... and it is clearly working for them!

 

[hawkeye08]

I may have the brand wrong, but I think Versatile tractors started as off the shelf parts. Truck rear end, ujoints, engine, etc all off the shelf. Farmers loved them.

Some history here The Versatile Tractor: A Tradition of Reliability and Innovation - Tractors - Farm Collector

There is a facebook page and lots of information from google searches. They make bigger tractors than what you are proposing, but some interesting concepts.