STEAM ENGINE QUESTIONS.

[ultrarunner]

Moss... your depth of knowledge continues to amaze...

Sometimes I think the only reason my job is secure is because I tend the Hospital Steam Boilers... no one will even venture in... even the Fire Marshall on annual inspection declined to go past the threshold... she said no way.

Years ago during construction... a worker broke the water lever sight glass... it sent a plum of steam visible anywhere on the campus grounds... they were going to evacuate the hospital until I said it is just blowing off steam...

We have have relatively low pressure... currently set at 70 psi... with multiple safeties.

Ever see the old war films of steam locomotive getting strafed... when they go there is nothing left.

 

[MossRoad]

Moss... your depth of knowledge continues to amaze...

Sometimes I think the only reason my job is secure is because I tend the Hospital Steam Boilers... no one will even venture in... even the Fire Marshall on annual inspection declined to go past the threshold... she said no way.

Years ago during construction... a worker broke the water lever sight glass... it sent a plum of steam visible anywhere on the campus grounds... they were going to evacuate the hospital until I said it is just blowing off steam...

We have have relatively low pressure... currently set at 70 psi... with multiple safeties.

Ever see the old war films of steam locomotive getting strafed... when they go there is nothing left.

Oh, I don't know that much, I just keep on learning stuff every day.... and it accumulates. :laughing:

I got let go from my job of 30 years (along with the entire production staff), and went to a new employer. They started me at a lower wage than I would have liked, but gave me the opportunity to get raises if I completed a bunch of training classes. There were 4 sections with about 20 courses in each one, so a total of 83 tests, with 1 raise per the 4 sections.... I had a year to complete them..... I did it in 4 months. I had pre-quiz scores of 74%.... so I knew about 3/4 of the stuff before the classes started. It was all just stuff I accumulated over the years of observing and doing. Electrical, plumbing, fabrication, production stuff, HVAC, steam, etc... I was kinda surprised at how much I remembered. Steam was my weakest subject and I did something like 65% pre-quizzes on that. Then they sent a bunch of us to steam school. Boy, that gives you an insight when they have a bunch of see-through equipment and simulators and do the "what if this happens" scenarios. Very, very interesting stuff, and I've gained a HUGE appreciation for steam and anybody that works on it. It's amazing how you can heat up some water to steam, then keep dumping energy into that steam and transport that energy great distances, then release that energy.... it truly is a beast to be respected. I think I'm more impressed with steam than electricity.

 

[MossRoad]

 

[ultrarunner]

Your avatar and demeanor reminds me of my best friend I lost last year... he was quite a bit older and I got to know him as he was building his forever home...

He was career Phone Company and went through all the changes and picked up a lot of wisdom... also held patents and very generous with his time... always had a project and something on the bench... had more tools than anyone I know... his weakness later in life was Harbor Freight... if they sold it he had it.

Did you ever smoke a pipe?

 

[MossRoad]

Your avatar and demeanor reminds me of my best friend I lost last year... he was quite a bit older and I got to know him as he was building his forever home...

He was career Phone Company and went through all the changes and picked up a lot of wisdom... also held patents and very generous with his time... always had a project and something on the bench... had more tools than anyone I know... his weakness later in life was Harbor Freight... if they sold it he had it.

Did you ever smoke a pipe?

Just my grandpa's pipe when I was a kid.... I was fascinated by watching him clean it out, pack it, and then lighting it. He used to let me light it. Then he'd let me puff it, but to me, that meant blowing into it and filling the stem with little kid slobber. :laughing: He'd just roll his eyes and laugh.

My dad would take our trash to the city dump once a month or so, and he'd rip out mechical parts from applicances and bring them home for me to play with. I once set up a pretty elaborate stop light display with the rotating switch from a washing machine when I was 8 or 9 years old. I had a little light on a battery and was able to figure out which point on the switch were connected to each other when I turned the handle, then used a bunch of flashlight bulbs, dry cells and colored cellophane to make the stop light work.

Like I mentioned in another thread, my dad cannibalized our grill rotisserie motor to make a start tracker for his homemade 6" reflector telescope, and we (me and my siblings) all got to help. It was a great place to grow up. :thumbsup:

 

[GLyford]

Boilers get even more "fun" when they are no longer grouted in level all the time. I have only read about this, never seen it:

You get the most steam production from the section of water that is right over the firebox, called the crown sheet. When climbing a hill, you need a lot of steam so run the fire very hot, but the boiler is also tilted from the climb, so the water sits at an angle. Too much water, and you don't get steam so you actually let the water level drop as you start to angle uphill to keep the water level over the firebox (crown sheet) the same and keep making steam. If the crest of the hill comes up and levels out fast, as the boiler levels out again all the water rolls off the crown sheet back into the main section of the boiler, leaving very little over the crown.

What can happen then is all the remaining water flashes to steam at once. There is no hope of the vents and safeties letting out pressure fast enough at that point. Google "crown sheet explosion" for pictures.

What the guys learned to do was turn on all the pumps (they are required to have more than one, and usually more than one type) so you would have the steam injector, axle-driven gear or piston pump, and a hand pump all pumping like mad as the train crested a hill to keep the water level over the firebox deep enough. Also had a side benefit of adding a bunch of cooler water to take some energy out of the boiler. You also couldn't start too soon or you'd cool off the boiler before you topped the hill. And at least one of your pumps was already working hard because you were making a lot of steam.

There was a scenic railway a few years back that had an inexperienced engineer not keep up with the pumps and they lost the engine. I can't find the article right now...

 

[ultrarunner]

I guess it was in 1976 Bi-Centennial that a special Freedom Steam Train traveled the country... I very much wanted to see it but too young at the time to get there...

If I remember the story was an old train that was on display was put back into service for the adventure... the rail lines had to make sure water was available as the water towers were long gone...

One account said the locomotive had no problems even on the steepest grades and could out perform modern locomotives...

I remember be fascinated by it all...

The 1975 - 1976 American Freedom Train

 

[MossRoad]

I guess it was in 1976 Bi-Centennial that a special Freedom Steam Train traveled the country... I very much wanted to see it but too young at the time to get there...

If I remember the story was an old train that was on display was put back into service for the adventure... the rail lines had to make sure water was available as the water towers were long gone...

One account said the locomotive had no problems even on the steepest grades and could out perform modern locomotives...

I remember be fascinated by it all...

The 1975 - 1976 American Freedom Train

I got to see it. It was pulled onto a spur line next to St. Joseph High School in South Bend, In. Went through the displays in the cars with my dad.

 

[dadster4]

Boilers get even more "fun" when they are no longer grouted in level all the time. I have only read about this, never seen it:

You get the most steam production from the section of water that is right over the firebox, called the crown sheet. When climbing a hill, you need a lot of steam so run the fire very hot, but the boiler is also tilted from the climb, so the water sits at an angle. Too much water, and you don't get steam so you actually let the water level drop as you start to angle uphill to keep the water level over the firebox (crown sheet) the same and keep making steam. If the crest of the hill comes up and levels out fast, as the boiler levels out again all the water rolls off the crown sheet back into the main section of the boiler, leaving very little over the crown.

What can happen then is all the remaining water flashes to steam at once. There is no hope of the vents and safeties letting out pressure fast enough at that point. Google "crown sheet explosion" for pictures.

What the guys learned to do was turn on all the pumps (they are required to have more than one, and usually more than one type) so you would have the steam injector, axle-driven gear or piston pump, and a hand pump all pumping like mad as the train crested a hill to keep the water level over the firebox deep enough. Also had a side benefit of adding a bunch of cooler water to take some energy out of the boiler. You also couldn't start too soon or you'd cool off the boiler before you topped the hill. And at least one of your pumps was already working hard because you were making a lot of steam.

There was a scenic railway a few years back that had an inexperienced engineer not keep up with the pumps and they lost the engine. I can't find the article right now...

You must be a "Foamer" ...
Two of my BIL's are also...a Foamer is someone so interested in trains that they foam at the mouth :licking:
Not a derogatory term at all. One BIL just played with a train layout at his home, the other does that, but also is part owner of a refurbished dining car that offers fine dining while hooked up to an Amtrack train.
When they get together, I leave the room :banghead:

 

[GLyford]

I have an engineering degree, so the nuts and bolts of how anything remotely mechanical operates fascinates me. And the more I read about locomotives the more fascinating they become. I used to find the mechanical bits the most interesting, but as I keep reading about the steam boiler operating that has sort of taken over.

One of these days I may even build something to play around with. But I have to be careful not wax too eloquently at work, there's a guy who is even more gung-ho than I, and he'll corner me and talk my ear off if I let him.