John Deere 5403 Power Beyond

[Green Blood]

I have attached a 5403 power beyond picture with hoses labeled D,B and C. These 3 hoses go from my power beyond on the 5403 to my 512 front end loader control valve. Line "D" is designated as Oil Supply, "B" is designated as Excess oil return and "C" is designated as Oil return line. I need to replace my loader valve (internally cracked) and JD wants about $800 and it is the same manufacturer HEMA. I understand speaking with others this is a common problem with these valves, internal cracking. So the price is steep and if it is going to crack again, I do not want to use the HEMA brand. I am looking for a suitable substitute, but not having much luck. I am ignorant of hydraulic systems, so I am looking for some help. I disconnected the hoses to try and figure out what they are, I took them loose from the valve one at a time expecting one high pressure line and 2 return lines. Here are my findings, B labeled excess oil return line shot oil out about 25 feet when I started the tractor for about 5 seconds, D labeled oil supply had oil come out but only about 2 feet when I started the tractor for about 5 seconds, C labeled oil return line had oil come out of the valve port where the hose was removed from and nothing out of the hose, so that made sense, it is most likely a return.

I am confused why 2 hose were delivering oil flow? Is this just an internal design of the power beyond adapter on the JD 5403 when it is not hooked up to a valve? Do B and D hook together in the valve to create a high pressure slow flow for a power on demand situation and C returns anything returning from a cylinder to the tank when you are moving a cylinder?

Any guidance would be appreciated.

 

[Dave M7040]

You need to do some homework first.

The second supply line may be for power steering. You need to learn a lot more about your tractor systems. Did the FEL come as part of the factory installed equipment?

Some John Deere models are closed center hydraulic system and others are open center. It make a big difference. Do some research on your model.

Google "John Deere 5403 spec." and then choose Tractor Data. I think you will find open center and 9.5 gpm after power steering needs are met.

If your problem is with your loader valve, then spending time at the rear hydraulic block is just going to confuse you.

How many hoses are on your FEL valve. 6 or 7?
There are many options on FEL valves. Float position, regen. Yes you can buy a FEL valve off the shelf but you may be missing out on low cost features which will make operation much easier for years to come.

My suggestion is to talk to a tech support person from Cross Manufacturing. Cross Manufacturing

The first mistake people make is to buy a FEL valve with too high a flow rating. Often 25 gpm. With your flow of less than 10 gpm, too large a valve makes fine motor control of your loader impossible.

Is there a separate power steering pump on your tractor or is the ps fed from the main pump through a priority flow control valve?

Will you ever want a grapple? Instead of buying a 2 spool FEL valve buy one with three. The third for the grapple. You can have a joystick for the FEL and a lever for the grapple.

Remember with hydraulic systems: There is NO "Lets try it and see what happens" option. Expensive parts are destroyed in less than one second.

Dave M7040

 

[Jim Timber]

I have attached a 5403 power beyond picture with hoses labeled D,B and C. These 3 hoses go from my power beyond on the 5403 to my 512 front end loader control valve. Line "D" is designated as Oil Supply, "B" is designated as Excess oil return and "C" is designated as Oil return line. I need to replace my loader valve (internally cracked) and JD wants about $800 and it is the same manufacturer HEMA. I understand speaking with others this is a common problem with these valves, internal cracking. So the price is steep and if it is going to crack again, I do not want to use the HEMA brand. I am looking for a suitable substitute, but not having much luck. I am ignorant of hydraulic systems, so I am looking for some help. I disconnected the hoses to try and figure out what they are, I took them loose from the valve one at a time expecting one high pressure line and 2 return lines. Here are my findings, B labeled excess oil return line shot oil out about 25 feet when I started the tractor for about 5 seconds, D labeled oil supply had oil come out but only about 2 feet when I started the tractor for about 5 seconds, C labeled oil return line had oil come out of the valve port where the hose was removed from and nothing out of the hose, so that made sense, it is most likely a return.

I am confused why 2 hose were delivering oil flow? Is this just an internal design of the power beyond adapter on the JD 5403 when it is not hooked up to a valve? Do B and D hook together in the valve to create a high pressure slow flow for a power on demand situation and C returns anything returning from a cylinder to the tank when you are moving a cylinder?

Any guidance would be appreciated.

What happened at the power beyond adapter plate (the manifold these lines connect to) when D was shooting oil 2 feet?

I really wish JD's literature would match conventional nomenclature. This would be so much easier to figure out!


What you have is a high pressure delivery port, a high pressure return port, and a low pressure tank drain port. The power steering uses a lower pressure hydraulic system fed by it's own pump, so don't get hung up on that like Dave just said.

High pressure delivery port is most often labeled "P" on valves for "pressure in". High pressure return port in this case is your "power beyond" function of the loader valve which will be labeled "B" or "BY" in my experience. Then the drain to tank is labeled "T".

Where your testing method is flawed is that we already know your valve body is cracked and leaking internally. So what we don't know is where the fluid that shot 2 feet is originating. Is that internal leakage or is that bypassed flow in the power beyond circuit?

 

[Green Blood]

Let me try and clarify the cracked valve ports are not marked, other than A and B for the loader cylinders, it was made in Turkey literature is sketchy at best. The source for the power fluid is from the Power Beyond attachment I loaded, the read hydraulic block Dave mentions, that is factory installed stacked on the side of where the 2 factory remotes are located. The FEL is factory installed, everything is factory. So I was disconnecting the hose to try and gather enough information to determine, what I have. Open, Closed Hybrid, since the ports are not labeled. After doing more research on the valve it appears that hose "B" port and hose "D" port are tied together trough a power beyond path in the loader valve and hose "C" is the Tank return. Hose "D" is on a HPCO port which I think translates to power beyond. I plan on disconnecting "D" and "B" to see if air will flow freely from one port to the other. Will that tell me if those are hooked to power beyond ports? I will also consult Cross Manufacturing later today. Thanks for the link, it is bookmarked now. I still work for a living and I must go do that task now.

On the loader lift spool I have a float notch, so I would need that feature, I use it all the time back dragging.

Dave I have considered a grapple, thanks for that thought. The tractor does have power steering but that is fed and controlled separately.

7 hoses

Hydraulics:
Type: open center
Capacity: 10 gal [37.9 L]
Pressure: 2800 psi [193.1 bar]
Valves: 1 or 2
Pump flow: 9.5 gpm [36.0 lpm]
Total flow: 16.3 gpm [61.7 lpm]
Steering flow: 6.8 gpm [25.7 lpm]

Thanks

 

[Green Blood]

I found a diagram of the current loader valve on the HEMA website, with both of your help and the diagram, I believe I figured out what type of valve I have and what each hose's function is on this tractor V/V. Yesterday I verified that the "P" and HPCO ports are bidirectionally open to one another. I sent all of my findings and information to Cross Manufacturing yesterday via email and I will follow up with a call today.

Here are the results:

Hose labeled "B" in the JD diagram is hooked to the V/V "P" pressure port.
Hose labeled "C" in the JD diagram is hooked to the V/V HPCO or Power beyond
Hose labeled "D" in the JD diagram is hooked to the V/V tank port.
Open Center
9.5 GPM
2800 psi

I think that makes sense with the V/V diagram. (not so sure about the JD diagram)

I tried to post and update yesterday evening, but I did not find it this morning, so I am not sure if I have done this twice.

Thanks for the help

 

[Dave M7040]

View attachment 554794

I found a diagram of the current loader valve on the HEMA website, with both of your help and the diagram, I believe I figured out what type of valve I have and what each hose's function is on this tractor V/V. Yesterday I verified that the "P" and HPCO ports are bidirectionally open to one another. I sent all of my findings and information to Cross Manufacturing yesterday via email and I will follow up with a call today.

Here are the results:

Hose labeled "B" in the JD diagram is hooked to the V/V "P" pressure port.
Hose labeled "C" in the JD diagram is hooked to the V/V HPCO or Power beyond
Hose labeled "D" in the JD diagram is hooked to the V/V tank port.
Open Center
9.5 GPM
2800 psi

I think that makes sense with the V/V diagram. (not so sure about the JD diagram)

I tried to post and update yesterday evening, but I did not find it this morning, so I am not sure if I have done this twice.

Thanks for the help

Sounds like progress.

Just make certain you get power beyond sleeve or plug for whatever valve you buy. Even though PB or HPCO may appear on the FEL valve body, it is not really present until the plug or sleeve is installed. Most times you buy it separate from the FEL valve.

Dave M7040

 

[Dave M7040]

View attachment 554794

I found a diagram of the current loader valve on the HEMA website, with both of your help and the diagram, I believe I figured out what type of valve I have and what each hose's function is on this tractor V/V. Yesterday I verified that the "P" and HPCO ports are bidirectionally open to one another. I sent all of my findings and information to Cross Manufacturing yesterday via email and I will follow up with a call today.

Here are the results:

Hose labeled "B" in the JD diagram is hooked to the V/V "P" pressure port.
Hose labeled "C" in the JD diagram is hooked to the V/V HPCO or Power beyond
Hose labeled "D" in the JD diagram is hooked to the V/V tank port.
Open Center
9.5 GPM
2800 psi

I think that makes sense with the V/V diagram. (not so sure about the JD diagram)

I tried to post and update yesterday evening, but I did not find it this morning, so I am not sure if I have done this twice.

Thanks for the help

Sounds like progress.

Just make certain you get power beyond sleeve or plug for whatever valve you buy. Even though PB or HPCO may appear on the FEL valve body, it is not really present until the plug or sleeve is installed. Most times you buy it separate from the FEL valve.

It has been a while but I think if you swap the Pump port and the PB port hoses things wont work right.

Dave M7040