Rock removal

[CMV]

Getting some areas ready for planting. Tearing up sod and just getting started. My land is FULL of rocks. I had it to where all the ones that got in way of mowing were gone, but zillions of them at ground level or slightly buried. I'm ripping up the ground using my box blade with 6 teeth all the way down, angled to not collect dirt. Smaller ones about size of a softball just get brought up. But larger ones - size of a football or bigger, the get caught under a tooth or front of BB and then make it ride high. What I did was go back in forth in long rows a bunch of times, then across with front bucket w/ toothbar level and tried to push as much to one side. When a tooth/bucket caught a rock, dug it out and pushed away. Some larger ones with flat surface still there at ground level.

I have a little ground cover to still get out of this area and am then ready to till. Kind of nervous running the 3pt rotary tiller because I have no idea what its going to do when it finds even more rocks. Don't want to break it. Will it just climb over (forward tine, 72" Hush Hog RT72G w/ slip clutch) something to big to dislodge? Some of these aren't "rocks" at all - pieces of concrete about 24"x24"x4"

I don't have a rock bucket or anything that would be really good at getting these up. Attached is a poor picture from last night, but you can see some of what I'm dealing with. I'm hoping I can run the tiller without hurting it because I really want to get some sand and compost mixed in with this clay. Will spend a day just walking around and picking up what I see before trying the tiller, but I'm sure it's going to be a whole lot better at finding more than the BB or front bucket.


Also - just using what i have. I don't have a plow, rake, scrape blade, harrow, rock bucket, etc. Kind of limited to box blade, tiller, & front bucket. If there is something I can get relatively inexpensive used from clist like a grading blade, tillage tool, or landscape rake that would work well I'm not opposed to that. But $1500+ for a rock bucket isn't something I'm willing to do. And if not obvious.....I have no idea what I'm doing....

 

[TomIre]

Might need to break it open with a plow and then rock take. Be careful with the sand. I know it seems intuitive that it would help clay drain better but I've seen clay just form a ball around clay and pack in tight. Organic material may work better. I've always used chopped up leaf litter to improve clay.

 

[donaldj]

Many places rent rock buckets. check local rental places. Else, a landscaping rake will help.

 

[GirlWhoWantsTractor]

You're in NC; I'm in VA. Welcome to being a rock farmer. I'm assuming this a family garden plot or small hobby farm plot. The more you dig, scrape and plow, the more rocks you will turn up. Then, when you have finally, with great labor, removed all the rocks from, say the first foot of soil. Next winter's freeze/thaw will heave more up. You will never get rid of them. Tillers are real hard to use in this type of soil. Just remove the bigger rocks from the surface, then order up a load of topsoil (I can get a long dump truck full of good brown topsoil for $300; random "dirt" is just $100) or use your tractor to transport some from elsewhere on your property. Dig out a pond! Also start a big compost pile for next year. Even if you don't have animals, grass clippings and fall leaves make great compost (for next year's garden). Just keep adding stuff on.

I've been experimenting with covering half the garden with about 12" of compost for a year, then scraping it onto the other half. So only half the garden is planted each year. This has pretty much eliminated grass/weeds by smothering them out. Also insulates the ground against frost heave. When you scrape that compost off in the spring you've got good, soft, black, earthworm-filled soil ready to plant in and not a single weed. No need to till at all really. (I also plant things real close together, not in "rows," to shade out weeds.)

Hope this helps!

 

[sixdogs]

Don't pick most of them up. Bury them and I've done it for decades. Drive by one of my high dollar lawns and you'll never know what's beneath. I've done this in New England glacial till and around Ohio with just moderate rocks. I realize you have limited equipment and $$ so this is what I do.

1. You do have to pick up the big ones first. Size of a small half of a football. You drive slow in a loader tractor and a kid hustles the big ones in the bucket.

2. Then chisel plow the ground deep, maybe on the order of 7". I use a 90HP tractor and an IH Vibrashank cultivator with 1 3/4" wide points and 16 shanks to 8 ft implement. 70HP might do it. Work the ground a lot so the tiller can bury the rocks easily.

3. Pick any big rocks out like you did previously. Get a HD rototiller and till s-l-o-w (1 MPH) with the lid down in the back. Might need to till twice. Go slow and it will bury all but the big ones.

4. The next part needs a special tool and you need to do it before it rains or you'll have to rototill again.. You need to pack the ground to press any other rocks down and not leave tracks. I use a "cultimulcher" and you can search my prior posts for pics and description. It's an implement with a packer up front, adjustable cultivators in the middle and a packer in the rear. I only put the tines in the ground maybe 1/2" or so. Rent one. Smooth ground, rocks gone. Pick up any errant rocks while packing.

5. Seed with a Brillion or other seeder with tine track eradicators.

6. Miller time.


I've done many acres like this and posted this a number of times here if you want to search for more. I've tried all the other methods and none work unless you have an army of kids to pick rocks and then as soon as you break the ground to work it you have rocks again. Good luck and rent, borrow or scrounge what you don't have. Buy later when you know what works for you. Hope this helps.

 

[Jstpssng]

Don't pick most of them up. Bury them and I've done it for decades. Drive by one of my high dollar lawns and you'll never know what's beneath. I've done this in New England glacial till and around Ohio with just moderate rocks. I realize you have limited equipment and $$ so this is what I do.

1. You do have to pick up the big ones first. Size of a small half of a football. You drive slow in a loader tractor and a kid hustles the big ones in the bucket.

2. Then chisel plow the ground deep, maybe on the order of 7". I use a 90HP tractor and an IH Vibrashank cultivator with 1 3/4" wide points and 16 shanks to 8 ft implement. 70HP might do it. Work the ground a lot so the tiller can bury the rocks easily.

3. Pick any big rocks out like you did previously. Get a HD rototiller and till s-l-o-w (1 MPH) with the lid down in the back. Might need to till twice. Go slow and it will bury all but the big ones.

4. The next part needs a special tool and you need to do it before it rains or you'll have to rototill again.. You need to pack the ground to press any other rocks down and not leave tracks. I use a "cultimulcher" and you can search my prior posts for pics and description. It's an implement with a packer up front, adjustable cultivators in the middle and a packer in the rear. I only put the tines in the ground maybe 1/2" or so. Rent one. Smooth ground, rocks gone. Pick up any errant rocks while packing.

5. Seed with a Brillion or other seeder with tine track eradicators.

6. Miller time.


I've done many acres like this and posted this a number of times here if you want to search for more. I've tried all the other methods and none work unless you have an army of kids to pick rocks and then as soon as you break the ground to work it you have rocks again. Good luck and rent, borrow or scrounge what you don't have. Buy later when you know what works for you. Hope this helps.

He's putting in a garden, not a lawn. Rototillers don't like rocks. He will need to pick the rocks, turn the soil, and pick it again. For 8 years I've been turning my soil with a Ford 101 plow, disking, picking again, hilling up raised beds then finishing up with my Troybilt. This year I borrowed a 5 foot County Line tiller and still found rocks that I can't lift; I dug most out with the bucket, but a couple are waiting for when I can put the backhoe on.
GirlWWT has one suggestion; otherwise, the OP will need to keep picking, turning, and picking again. Remember that our ancesters did it all without hydraulics; just strong backs and several sons. They've been picking rocks out of the potato fields in northern Maine for 150+ years, yet they still keep finding more. Frost action is pretty amazing.

 

[CMV]

It seems the more I go, I just keep uncovering new ones <sigh>

This is what I'm dealing with giving me grief


The softball and smaller sized ones - they're easy. Bucket and/or box blade catches them and takes them along. Football and larger - esp buried or half buried - just make everything come to a halt. Reposition, dig it out, scoop it up, dump it, ...oh look...another bigger one right next to it.... I thought pushing with BB in reverse would be good way to move all the loose ones, but that just skims off an inch of dirt which exposes even more.

The area I've done so far is about 30' x 250'. I want to do at least 2 more areas this size for our pumpkin growing project. Since the soil is so bad I did consider a few triaxle loads of "black dirt", but those are $500+ ea delivered for about 18 cu yds. And 1 load wouldn't even cover an area that size 1" deep. Of course the whole area probably wouldn't need covering....just make mounds where the seeds will start might suffice. Mulch remainder to keep weeds down? No idea, but think that would just delay the problem since at end of season would have same issue needing to till the topsoil mounds and dead vines into the ground?

 

[stuckmotor]

My grandfather was a tobacco farmer below the fall line. He had twelve kids and not a rock on the place in thousands of years. What a waste of kid power.

I've tried all the other methods and none work unless you have an army of kids to pick rocks and then as soon as you break the ground to work it you have rocks again.

 

[kthompson]

Had very little experience with rocks but little helping brother in law in Texas. He was using fel and land plane and had some success, bought like you. He had bought a used I call them roll over rear blade that was only about four feet which for his 40 something tractor was fine. He had not tried it as had no idea how to use it. It has really heavy shanks on it, much heavier than normal box blade that would really hold to pull a rock with a single shank, we pull the rocks up with that and then roll to the blade to pull a load out. Think the brand of blade is Gannon.

Saying all that to say look for used implement built heavy in width your tractor will handle. I think you will need much heavier shanks than you think. But you probably can find more than one style of implement you can do this work with. A single shank subsoiler may pull the rocks up but a two shank close together would be better as not as likely to slip around a rock. Good time to meet neighbors, visit and ask for suggestions on implements and who may have old one for sale. Old, not been used in long time in the way may translate into low price.

On mulch, no idea there but our county recycling center sells ground up trees and such for cheap and would be good to mix with clay. Patience is your friend. Oh, you may should find out what someone would charge to run heavy equipment through there, might be less than getting implement that will work for you and then wear and tear on you and your tractor.

 

[GirlWhoWantsTractor]

It seems the more I go, I just keep uncovering new ones <sigh>

This is what I'm dealing with giving me grief
View attachment 555405

The softball and smaller sized ones - they're easy. Bucket and/or box blade catches them and takes them along. Football and larger - esp buried or half buried - just make everything come to a halt. Reposition, dig it out, scoop it up, dump it, ...oh look...another bigger one right next to it.... I thought pushing with BB in reverse would be good way to move all the loose ones, but that just skims off an inch of dirt which exposes even more.

The area I've done so far is about 30' x 250'. I want to do at least 2 more areas this size for our pumpkin growing project. Since the soil is so bad I did consider a few triaxle loads of "black dirt", but those are $500+ ea delivered for about 18 cu yds. And 1 load wouldn't even cover an area that size 1" deep. Of course the whole area probably wouldn't need covering....just make mounds where the seeds will start might suffice. Mulch remainder to keep weeds down? No idea, but think that would just delay the problem since at end of season would have same issue needing to till the topsoil mounds and dead vines into the ground?

I think we're all in agreement: In our rocky soil you will never get rid of the rocks. Besides you don't need to till to grow a garden. Just pick out the big rocks on the surface and plant your pumpkins. The roots will grow around the rocks just fine. Now, root crops on the other hand.....

Your main problem is not the rocks, but your (our) red clay soil. Now, clay soil actually isn't that bad in terms of nutrients. The problem is that it holds moisture very poorly. Concentrate your efforts on adding organic matter to the soil.

 

[Creamer]

Go no till and use a lawn roller to push them down. With a lot of mulch you will see your no-till garden do better than one that is tilled.

 

[GirlWhoWantsTractor]

The area I've done so far is about 30' x 250'. I want to do at least 2 more areas this size for our pumpkin growing project. Since the soil is so bad I did consider a few triaxle loads of "black dirt", but those are $500+ ea delivered for about 18 cu yds. And 1 load wouldn't even cover an area that size 1" deep. Of course the whole area probably wouldn't need covering....just make mounds where the seeds will start might suffice. Mulch remainder to keep weeds down? No idea, but think that would just delay the problem since at end of season would have same issue needing to till the topsoil mounds and dead vines into the ground?

So you're doing a fairly large area. Organic fertilizer like Milorganite or compost will get you started on improving your soil.

Mulch works great to keep down weeds but is expensive on such a large area. You can use landscape cloth or even newspaper, really anything handy will do.

This may seem counterintuitive but there's really no need to till topsoil or vines down into the soil. By next spring the vines will be mostly disintegrated. Just keep throwing the good stuff on top!

As Creamer said, "no till" all the way!

 

[52wej]

The red clay soils of Piedmont VA and NC grow rocks. They thrive here in Central VA, white flint rocks in particular! I have a garden spot that I have been working for 35+ years and I still get football size rocks from time to time. Frost heave is amazing. That being said adding compost and organic material is crucial to making the soils more productive. I have found a wonderful way to dispose of all of the leaves in my yard and over the years the red clay has gradually grown darker and more friable. But the dentist bill on my 5 ft rotary tiller has been pretty bad, at least one tooth a year.
To be honest I subsoil the garden every year to improve drainage and I know that brings more rocks to the surface. But I find that a 7 shank cultivator/tiller will help bring the larger ones to the surface where I can simply pick them up. It does not seem too make much difference if I plow the garden in the fall with a moldboard plow or not. I have learned to watch the rotary tiller and when it bumps as it does with a large rock, I get off with a hoe and dig the offending stone up. Saves time and teeth in the long run And I have found no other easier way for me to remove them. Hang in there. W. Jones

 

[oosik]

Wow! I feel your pain. My garden spot - about 120' X 150' - has NO ROCKS. I surmise its because the homesteader - somehow - removed them. I know the homesteader on the property immediately north - had five sons - and his cleared fields and his rock walls go on for miles & miles. Lord knows how long it took to clear those fields but I sure have an abundant supply of local rocks - if I ever need any for a project. All the neighbor asks - don't drop any back out in his fields.

I suggest - start small. Hand pick the rocks and expand each year. Sooner than you think - it will be the size you want. Taking it all on at once will only discourage you.

I've seen videos of those "rock picking implements" they appear to work very well - if you have $$$$ to purchase or anywhere that rents them. I doubt that there is a single one of those implements in this state.

 

[Jstpssng]

When I had my field reclaimed, besides pulling the stumps the excavator operator apparently also pulled the larger rocks. For several years I plowed without ever tripping the bottom, and rarely raised a rock over the size of a softball. Then I had this brilliant idea that if I plowed deeper I could bury all of the weed seeds so I went down about 16", almost the depth of my topsoil. While I didn't alleviate the weeds I did bring up an entire layer of rocks, and it isn't uncommon to trip the plow several times when doing the field.

 

[Creamer]

The red clay soils of Piedmont VA and NC grow rocks. They thrive here in Central VA, white flint rocks in particular! I have a garden spot that I have been working for 35+ years and I still get football size rocks from time to time. Frost heave is amazing. That being said adding compost and organic material is crucial to making the soils more productive. I have found a wonderful way to dispose of all of the leaves in my yard and over the years the red clay has gradually grown darker and more friable. But the dentist bill on my 5 ft rotary tiller has been pretty bad, at least one tooth a year.
To be honest I subsoil the garden every year to improve drainage and I know that brings more rocks to the surface. But I find that a 7 shank cultivator/tiller will help bring the larger ones to the surface where I can simply pick them up. It does not seem too make much difference if I plow the garden in the fall with a moldboard plow or not. I have learned to watch the rotary tiller and when it bumps as it does with a large rock, I get off with a hoe and dig the offending stone up. Saves time and teeth in the long run And I have found no other easier way for me to remove them. Hang in there. W. Jones

Earthworms will do a lot more to improve drainage than a subsoiler ever will. I would not have believed that except 40 years ago growing up on the farm we had this one field that was 24 acres and about 3/4 mile long, i.e. a long narrow rectangle. We had three lowspots in it that went all the way across the field and were often very difficult to farm. One year we harvested the wheat off of it and Dad said to haul truckloads of manure into the three lowspots. I thought he was crazy adding this much organic matter which will hold more water; it was literally 3-4 inches deep when leveled out. But the manure brought the earthworms up over winter and in the spring we farmed right across it and never have had a problem since. Of course 20 years ago my nephews who farm it now went no till and really work to attain to attain macroporosity, i.e. earthworm holes.

 

[GirlWhoWantsTractor]

Earthworms will do a lot more to improve drainage than a subsoiler ever will. I would not have believed that except 40 years ago growing up on the farm we had this one field that was 24 acres and about 3/4 mile long, i.e. a long narrow rectangle. We had three lowspots in it that went all the way across the field and were often very difficult to farm. One year we harvested the wheat off of it and Dad said to haul truckloads of manure into the three lowspots. I thought he was crazy adding this much organic matter which will hold more water; it was literally 3-4 inches deep when leveled out. But the manure brought the earthworms up over winter and in the spring we farmed right across it and never have had a problem since. Of course 20 years ago my nephews who farm it now went no till and really work to attain to attain macroporosity, i.e. earthworm holes.

No-till all the way. Try it and you'll never go back.

 

[CMV]

Well, we spent this evening picking rocks - so much fun...:mur: I started on another spot ripping grass and getting it ready. another large area, but not quite as long. Was all set expecting the worst, but up on higher ground, nothing. Just let the rippers go all the way down and maybe found a half bucket's worth of softball sized and smaller. Totally different. My land is 2 levels - top and bottom. It's mostly all flat, but a distinct drop off of about 5' elevation change from top to bottom. Apparently "top" had a lot of clean fill dirt brought in and graded. Would explain why it's so soft, not rocky, but won't drain and holds water.

Anyway, got lots of grass ripped up. about as much as I can get with a box blade and loader bucket without digging and skimming off top dirt layers (and don't want to get far down into it and find another rock garden). So will spray some roundup and kill off remainder. But I can at least till this area with no fear of breaking the tiller. Will do next section(s) up there too and hopefully have the same success in rock-less ground.

Giving up on digging rocks in first area. Just walking around picking up, I saw at least 100 that need dug out. And they are probably sitting on more. Would be a never ending task I think. So will get some black dirt (topsoil from local company that's all compost and they do great - not chunks of wood or trash, just pure black dirt that's real rich) and make large mounds where the plants will go. Will mulch remainder with something to keep weeds down - wood chips probably? Whatever looks inexpensive and easy to spread a thick layer over that large area.

 

[52wej]

I absolutely agree that earthworms do make a huge difference in conditioning the soil. But much of the land here in Central Va. has been farmed since the late 1700's and most of the original topsoil was depleted by the early 1800's from poor farming practices. We add all sorts of organic matter as we are able to obtain it and we are SLOWLY improving the condition of the soil to where it is more appealing to earth worms. But that just takes time. It is interesting to see how the soils do vary across the country and you can see where folks have worked hard removing the rocks over the years. In the field where this garden plot lies there once were two large piles of rocks the size of small tractors where earlier owners had collected them over the years. I removed them years ago to use for erosion control in some drainage ditches and roads. CMV do not give up, if you do remove all you can find, the numbers WILL decrease over time. W Jones

 

[crazyal]

Rocks suck. I borrowed a root rake for the blade of my dozer and got everything bigger than a softball out of the ground in one area. I also have ledge and some of my rocks weigh the size of a small car. Since ding it I have expanded my yard and don't have access to the rake anymore. I don't know how big of an area you are trying to do but you could call around and see if someone with a dozer had a rake for it. Since it's not going to take long and if you are flexible you may get a good price to have someone stop and do it on the way to another job. I like doing things myself but a field of rocks is just a lot of hard work for a 45hp tractor.