Small Engine Oil filters. Same Spec just different sizes?

[Tony H]

Having a tough time getting aftermarket filter for a new to me Kawasaki FS541V commercial engine. I have a Kawasaki FB460V engine on a mower for 20+ years now and I can get that filter anywhere and at a reasonable price ( $10 for a tiny filter spin-on is nuts). Anyway after wondering if the FB oil filter would work on my FS engine, I looked up equivalents on NAPA ProLink only to find that both oil filters sold by NAPA have the same Filtration and same Gallon per Minute Flow. The Bypass pressure was about the same as well. They are shaped different enough BUT can I assume that if the Gasketing area mates with both filters that I should be able to use one for the other? Do engine manufacturers play with shapes and part numbers just to have us paying premiums and jumping through hoops?

 

[TractorNH]

Fram has a really good parts search on their website. Just enter the engine model number and let it search. From the Fram number you could probably cross reference to any manufacturer you wanted. According to the search the two engines use different filters (see pics below, screenshots from the search page). I was curious because you listed the FB460V. I have an FH451V on a mower which uses a Fram PH4967, the same as your FB460V and also the same as the 1996 Toyota Corolla I used to own. I discovered they used the same filter when I got rid of the car and had a few extra filters leftover so I've been using them on the mower ever since.

Here's a link to the parts search page:
Parts Search | FRAM

 

[Alan W.]

The filter on my sons Kawasaki Mule was so short it was almost imposdible to get any wrench on it so I went with a Purolater L14477 which is way longer making a filter change way easier. This filter also fits the Kawasakis on the Exmarks my BIL uses. I use the Advanceauto website and get the 25% discount on them. Like you I think the factory filters are way over priced

 

[massey collector]

Fram filters are about the worst filters made. About half the filter material and the pressure releif spring isn't even a spring just a chunk of metal like those clicker toys sold to kids back in the old dAYs.

If you have the Fram filter number you can cross referance it to a much better NAPA filter or Wix (sold at O Rielys auto Parts)

Engine Oil Filter Study



Al

 

[Oaktree]

Fram filters are about the worst filters made. About half the filter material and the pressure releif spring isn't even a spring just a chunk of metal like those clicker toys sold to kids back in the old dAYs.
Engine Oil Filter Study

It should be noted that this "study" is 20 years old. Lots can change in that time.
I have never had a problem with a Fram filter. Yeah, if you buy their cheapest one, you're likely to get what you pay for, but they make several grades.

In 2009, they changed the oil filters. Same filter, but the new one is now metric threads. :confused3:

Well that sounds like fun. Most vehicles I've had put the filter somewhere barely accessible so you're putting in the new one mostly by feel...bad enough without having to deal with different threads.

 

[DEWFPO]

If the thread specs, flow rate, ADBV, bypass psi, and micron ratings are the same or very similar you can use almost any filter that meets those manufacturers specs. Larger filters will take more oil so beware of that. You also may not want to use one that is way far longer than the original one since engine vibration/shake can cause it to want to loosen.

DEWFPO

 

[bdog]

You also may not want to use one that is way far longer than the original one since engine vibration/shake can cause it to want to loosen.
DEWFPO

How is that? Why wouldn’t it loosen in the application it was designed for? I have several applications that use filters a foot long on machines that rattle like crazy and I have never had one come loose.

 

[massey collector]

If ther filter is installed properly one longer than normal isn't going to come loose any easier than the short one.


Yes that study was done 20 years ago but still is a good one to go by today.

If you want to do is buy a couple your self and cut them open and split the filter materal and measure how much difference there is.

Cheap out on the filter and pay out later when you need to overhaul the engine sooner.

( WARNING ) For You Fram Oil Filter Lover's.YouTube - YouTube


Al

 

[rScotty]

Us engineers keep redesigning and changing things so we can stay employed. The bean counters change part numbers to a more efficient system, and it keeps the girls in the office busy. The technical writers are kept busy writing new books. The printers have to make new boxes and books with the new part numbers. The construction industry has to build new warehouses for all the new parts. Win, win.

I have a 2008 and 2011 Jeep Liberty with the same engine, same body. In 2009, they changed the oil filters. Same filter, but the new one is now metric threads. :confused3:

There's way too much truth in what K7LN is saying. On the good side, it keeps the economy going and at the same times leaves the door wide open for anyone who want to be innovative. They just have to do it outside of the day-to-day system.
rScotty

 

[LD48750]

If ther filter is installed properly one longer than normal isn't going to come loose any easier than the short one.


Yes that study was done 20 years ago but still is a good one to go by today.

If you want to do is buy a couple your self and cut them open and split the filter materal and measure how much difference there is.

Cheap out on the filter and pay out later when you need to overhaul the engine sooner.

( WARNING ) For You Fram Oil Filter Lover's.YouTube - YouTube


Al

Wondering how many here have had to overhaul any engine due to poor oil filtering?

Or any other reason?

How many engine failures with good filters & dino oil as opposed to bad filters & synthetic oil?

Most of my stuff I use cheap filters & oil & have never had an oil related failure.
A few vehicles with 300k+ miles.

 

[oosik]

Tony H - Gee, I thought $10 is a fairly reasonable price for ANY spin on oil filter. The cross matched oil filter (Wix) for my M6040 is that much. You would really be upset at the price Kubota wants for their oil filter with their name on it. Kind of like the oil filter for my old Harley Davidson - the price was doubled because the HD name was painted on the filter.

 

[DEWFPO]

How is that? Why wouldn’t it loosen in the application it was designed for? I have several applications that use filters a foot long on machines that rattle like crazy and I have never had one come loose.

It wouldn't loosen if used in the application it was designed for. We were talking about using a filter that was a different size than the one spec'd by the manufactuer.

DEWFPO

 

[bdog]

It wouldn't loosen if used in the application it was designed for. We were talking about using a filter that was a different size than the one spec'd by the manufactuer.

DEWFPO

My point was the attachment method is the same for any application. What difference does it make what it is attached to?

 

[kthompson]

One of the biggest surprise I ever had with oil filters was when I learned the filter for our 20 hp Kohler was same as for the Toyota V6 in our Avalon. If the filer for the 20 hp would handle the V6 nothing surprises me with oil filters.

 

[Texasmark]

Fram filters are about the worst filters made. About half the filter material and the pressure releif spring isn't even a spring just a chunk of metal like those clicker toys sold to kids back in the old dAYs.

If you have the Fram filter number you can cross referance it to a much better NAPA filter or Wix (sold at O Rielys auto Parts)

Engine Oil Filter Study



Al

I didn't pull up your site. Last time I did on a tractor forum I got a virus. I spend a lot of time playing with the filter game. Lot of lies, disinformation, fake data etc etc etc on Fram filters.

A "full flow" filter for a 4 stroke engine is usually 20 micron because of the back pressure. If you want to go to 5 microns you have to have a bypass circuit, routing only a fraction of the engine requirement because of the back pressure. I had an OTR IH tractor with an 800 cu in Big Cam 400 hp Cummins diesel that had such a circuit.

Filters in general have different material and different sealing components and methods. The dimensions are different. The back flow seems to be about the same for all of them, maybe from a 3rd party. The bypass valve geometry is different although the release pressure for a given size filter is usually in the 8-12 psi range. Wix line of filters has all the specs published online if you cross to one of theirs.

For grins one day I tore up/sawed open, a 2 year old Fram PH 8A (Motorcraft Fl-1A sub used in Ford tractors) that was in my 2000 diesel. I had several popular brand filters that day and just tore them all apart. Yes, on that series of Fram filters they have paper end caps. With great effort I had to rip the paper in an attempt to get the glue seal apart and it didn't yield. The "paper" didn't just fall apart, as stated, I had to rip it apart. Nothing wrong with the relief valve nor the filter media. Had the flow back seal still intact and the steel inner shield between the media and the output.

Most of the "hot dog" brands didn't even have the metal end caps sealed.....they just sat on top of, not pressed on, just sitting on the ends of the filter media. The rest was similar to the Fram. So if you want a mid range they have the Tough Guard and if you want the Synthetic long life they have that too. Pick your fancy and pay the price. I've started using them regularly due to the varieties offered to fit my varied requirements.

 

[3930dave]

I won't do it just to save a $1 or 2, but if all the critical specs (listed page 1 here) line up reasonably well, and the threads and gasket surface match exactly, I have subbed a good quality aftermarket filter for a ridiculously priced OE one.

Normally they are close, but one last thing I'd look at is the count and "surface" area of the holes in the filter base - not usually listed as specs, but I wouldn't want to get to far off the OE setup in this respect.

I've successfully used most of the major oil filter brands, so nobody would call me a Framboy with reason, but what I find funny about the debate about fibre end caps is - If that thick non-porous fibre end cap is allegedly so prone to failure, how is the relatively thinner (all brands that is....) filter media supposed to stand up, and not tear ?

I've used most of the major brands for direct crosses, but often find that the most extensive listings in terms of tech specs are found with Wix - my personal goto for industrial hard to find filters....

Rgds, D.

 

[big bubba]

go the the parts diagram then the oil filter. 2 oil filter ops, kawi & after market. i'd go w/kawi jacks small engine is the best out there for about anything small engine, mower, etc
Kawasaki FS541V-ES19 4 Stroke Engine FS541V Parts Diagram for LUBRICATION-EQUIPMENT

 

[Tractor Seabee]

I am positive no OEM has a filter special made for them; except, possibly some air filters. Designers select a filter from all the ones available in the market. Who knows what a kubota branded filter is w/o there name plastered on it. Good way to make 100%+ profit on a standard production line item. I like NAPA Gold filters (WIX).

I have been able over 50+ years shopping at NAPA to find a replacement filter except an air filter for a 25HP Kawasaki mower engine. It was a unique shape. They guys at NAPA have a world of experience on parts, most are prior mechanics that wanted out from under cars and trucks. I had a MH with a 454 Chev. The standard oil filter as pretty small. Discussed it a NAPA, they new right away that a filter twice as long was a good replacement. As those MH engines are overworked anyway I felt more comfortable.

Ron

 

[big bubba]

I like NAPA Gold filters (WIX).Tractor Seabee

agree with you, try to use Napa Gold on all my small engine oil filters once i get the correct cross ref. have had difficulty finding the correct cross ref on hyd filters for my zero turns. in those cases, i go with
jacks small engine that has a comprehensive inventory for about anything highly recommend in that situation.

to the OP: sure would double check aftermarket ref # before i slap it on a high dollar Kawi
to me a $4 difference in aftermarket vs OEM is nominal best regards