My Grapple Just stopped working!!!! Advise Please

[MossflowerWoods]

OK,

I was just moving logs and the grapple would not open.

I have an electronic 3rd position switch on the loader stick and yesterday it was occasionally not responding, but today it just stopped.

There are NO hydraulic leaks.

Formerly with the key in run (tractor not running) when I would click the switch for open/close to equalize hydraulic pressure, I could hear the solenoid click each direction. Now I am only hearing one click and it sounds odd. The grapple would not open/close.

I suspect this means there is a problem with the WR Long 3rd position switch.

Is there anything I am forgetting? Is there anything I can try to further troubleshoot this?

Thanks in advance.

I'm seriously in a jam. Big bonfire party is Saturday, and today until 3pm or so was supposed to be my time to finish the pile...

Be well all,
David

 

[oosik]

Sounds like a loose wire, broken wire, mouse chewed wire - in-any-case - poor contact either at the switch on the loader stick or down at the WR Long electro-hydraulic switch. I would imagine its an easy fix - - once you run it down.

 

[1010]

Can you run a jumper wire just to get it open again, you might have to finish the pile like that.

 

[RichM752]

relay switch

 

[Rustyiron]

OK,


Formerly ......... I could hear the solenoid click each direction.

Now I am only hearing one click and it sounds odd. The grapple would not open/close.

I suspect this means there is a problem with the WR Long 3rd position switch.


David

Hopefully the switch, but don't eliminate the sol. valve itself. You need both "sides" of the valve to react for double acting cylinders to operate. Happy 4th!

 

[RichM752]

Relay switch. I've had this very issue twice. Reverse the relays, if it opens and does not close then the problem is solved. I found a relay at auto parts store that worked, then bought two extras the next time I visited the Kubota dealer.

 

[MossflowerWoods]

OK, I will check the relay. This is a great suggestion.

I did a cursory look for wire damage (got too much work to do to stop and troubleshoot, will do that tomorrow, LOL)

Also,

Typically when I disconnect the hydraulics, I cross connect the hoses off the grapple and the good & bad part is there is NO pressure and if you knock it over etc. it flops around (opens/closes). Well this time I placed it carefully against some logs and even cross connected it is locked in position. That part has me stumped.

Thanks again!.
Lunch is over, back to work!

be well all,
David

 

[Gordon Gould]

Do you have a pressure gauge you can plug into your grapple Quick Connects on the tractor ?



Seems odd your grapple should open and closed when cross connected in storage. Even though there is a fluid path between the two ends of the cylinders. The fact that the volume is smaller on the ram end than the dead end should prevent free movement. One way trys to pull a vacuum the other way there is to much fluid to go into the smaller space. But maybe it is because you have two independent lids ??? It is even stranger that it acts different now than before. Suggests something happened to the grapple ??? But an electrical problem seems more likely if it was intermittant then quit

gg

 

[papa4fofox]

When I had this problem I contacted WR Long and they said to replace the rocker-switch-for-electric-over-hydraulic-valve-kit. That solved the problem for me.

 

[flyerdan]

The fact that the grapple appears locked when disconnected from the tractor hydraulics indicates that it may be a mechanical problem. Do a quick check and see if there is a rock jammed somewhere that's keeping it from opening.
That could account for the odd sound; if the sound of the aux. deadheading with nothing attached is the same as with the grapple, it further would point to a mechanical issue.

 

[aczlan]

The fact that the grapple appears locked when disconnected from the tractor hydraulics indicates that it may be a mechanical problem. Do a quick check and see if there is a rock jammed somewhere that's keeping it from opening.
That could account for the odd sound; if the sound of the aux. deadheading with nothing attached is the same as with the grapple, it further would point to a mechanical issue.

The other thing I would look at is if one of the quick connects is jammed due to overpressure inside. Can you push the tip of both quick connects in and make sure they are opening? You might end up needing to loosen the quick connects just enough to relieve the pressure in the lines.


Aaron Z

 

[sixdogs]

The other thing I would look at is if one of the quick connects is jammed due to overpressure inside. Can you push the tip of both quick connects in and make sure they are opening? You might end up needing to loosen the quick connects just enough to relieve the pressure in the lines.


Aaron Z

I had this happen once.

 

[MossflowerWoods]

The other thing I would look at is if one of the quick connects is jammed due to overpressure inside. Can you push the tip of both quick connects in and make sure they are opening? You might end up needing to loosen the quick connects just enough to relieve the pressure in the lines.


Aaron Z

Aaron,

OK, I tried with the male end, and it easily released.

I know this trick because back when I was a n00b (was?) I more than once disconnected with pressurized system (Big no no).

I need to figure out how to check the female end...

Honestly it feels like electrical or the actual solenoid unit itself has gone bad.

I have limited time to troubleshoot due to my day job though...

I will say, its pretty funny because I just paid off all of the tractor and attachments etc. about 60-75 days ago... LOL...

Thanks,
Be Well.
David

 

[MossflowerWoods]

When I had this problem I contacted WR Long and they said to replace the rocker-switch-for-electric-over-hydraulic-valve-kit. That solved the problem for me.

Good to know!!!!!

Thank you for sharing.

Be well,
David

 

[MossflowerWoods]

The fact that the grapple appears locked when disconnected from the tractor hydraulics indicates that it may be a mechanical problem. Do a quick check and see if there is a rock jammed somewhere that's keeping it from opening.
That could account for the odd sound; if the sound of the aux. deadheading with nothing attached is the same as with the grapple, it further would point to a mechanical issue.

I'm pretty certain there is no rock etc. But I will double check.

I'm a bit confused by your deadheading comment... Pretty sure I'm misunderstanding you. As far as I know, it is all one hydraulic system, and everything else (Front loader, 3pt) works great. The noise is clearly coming from the 3rd function solenoid mounted to the rear of the tractor. The last time it worked at all was to close the grapple. After that it would not open. The odd sound (it is now a louder clunk, and it is only when I click the switch in one direction, the other direction is now silent).

If you can help me understand your point I'd sure appreciate it.

Thanks again.

Be well,
David

 

[flyerdan]

By deadheading, I meant when a hydraulic system tries to actuate something that isn't there, or like rolling the bucket all the way back and holding the lever back. It can't move fluid and the pump howls in protest and the bypass opens so the pressure won't grenade something. Was just wondering if the attached grapple made the same sounds as if there was nothing plugged into the aux lines.
A jumper hose with a fitting of each kind that would create a loop in the 3rd function would also tell if the problem was on the tractor side; if it functions normally with the loop, the grapple has a problem, if it still acts like it does now it's a switch or valve problem.

 

[Gordon Gould]

If I am understanding your grapple hydraulic circuit on the grapple it seems to me the lids will only "flop" around as you say if they are left in the partially open ( or closed ) position. Then if one lid is raised the other lid will drop the same amount. When one of the lids hits a mechanical stop you will get no more movement in that direction but you can go the other way until a stop is reached. If you parked this time with the grapple fully closed or fully open it will not move because if you move one lid the other which must go in the opposite direction will be against a stop. Maybe that is why it appears different now. Also it should not matter if the two hoses are cross connected or not. I was intrigued at how this would work and couldn't rest til I figured it out or think I figured it out I should say.

gg

 

[MossflowerWoods]

If I am understanding your grapple hydraulic circuit on the grapple it seems to me the lids will only "flop" around as you say if they are left in the partially open ( or closed ) position. Then if one lid is raised the other lid will drop the same amount. When one of the lids hits a mechanical stop you will get no more movement in that direction but you can go the other way until a stop is reached. If you parked this time with the grapple fully closed or fully open it will not move because if you move one lid the other which must go in the opposite direction will be against a stop. Maybe that is why it appears different now. Also it should not matter if the two hoses are cross connected or not. I was intrigued at how this would work and couldn't rest til I figured it out or think I figured it out I should say.

gg

Gordon,

Hmmm... My grapple has one side fixed to the SSQA on the loader, a left and right hinge, and dual hyd cylinders also L & R used to open/close. I have it set up with 1 each male & female hyd lines for attaching to tractor. Typically last to disconnect, first to connect are the hyd lines so I can control the grapple (it weighs over 600 lbs) when attach/detach. The reason for this is back when I was (was?) a n00bie I knocked it over at least once because when I connect the two lines on the grapple side, it is a single closed loop with no pressure in it. I seem to recall, it's floppy.

I almost always stand the grapple up on its teeth, partly opened and balanced (teeth in the ground) when I remove it. I could not open it enough this time so I had to lean it against a pile of logs at an angle. I've got kids, dogs, etc. can't afford for it to fall over when unattended or messed with.

Does that help?

Be well,
David

 

[MossflowerWoods]

By deadheading, I meant when a hydraulic system tries to actuate something that isn't there, or like rolling the bucket all the way back and holding the lever back. It can't move fluid and the pump howls in protest and the bypass opens so the pressure won't grenade something. Was just wondering if the attached grapple made the same sounds as if there was nothing plugged into the aux lines.
A jumper hose with a fitting of each kind that would create a loop in the 3rd function would also tell if the problem was on the tractor side; if it functions normally with the loop, the grapple has a problem, if it still acts like it does now it's a switch or valve problem.

OK! I think I understand now! I have both sets of rear remotes, one for when the stump grinder is attached. Both of those levers, but especially the one with detents, yes makes the "deadheading noise" and saps hyd power from other things if I ignore it or accidentally hit it.

No, I did not and do not get "deadheading noise" when actuating the 3rd function, and as I recall, I never have when grapple was removed (which is not often. I LOVE my grapple and use it for EVERYTHING).

Make sense?

David

 

[flyerdan]

If you're not getting a deadhead sound, it would appear that the solenoid valves aren't working. If it was me, I'd take my 12 ga. jumper wire with a battery clamp on one end and apply it directly to the suspect terminal. If it worked, the problem is in the switch or wiring; if it didn't, the valve is suspect.

Edit to add that it should be obvious, but if one is bypassing all kinds of safety interlocks and testing in close proximity to something that can suddenly move, don't position yourself in the way of something that can whack you.