Cheap bolt action rifles for son

[FarmWrench]

Thanks everyone, I have really enjoyed this thread.

I hadn't considered the 6.5 Grendel before. Unfortunately outside of the AR only Ruger and Howa have factory offerings that I can find.

Reloading 308 win to lighter weight, subsonic and cast lead into the 30-30, 300blk range successfully presents the question why not load 6.5cm to the slower Grendel level until the young man wants the full power cm?

If you were considering 357 then a flat trajectory isn't a requirement. For a real shock look up the price of a Ruger 77/357!

Interesting choices to be made.

 

[paulsharvey]

Thanks everyone, I have really enjoyed this thread.

I hadn't considered the 6.5 Grendel before. Unfortunately outside of the AR only Ruger and Howa have factory offerings that I can find.

Reloading 308 win to lighter weight, subsonic and cast lead into the 30-30, 300blk range successfully presents the question why not load 6.5cm to the slower Grendel level until the young man wants the full power cm?

If you were considering 357 then a flat trajectory isn't a requirement. For a real shock look up the price of a Ruger 77/357!

Interesting choices to be made.

Cz 527 is offered in 6.5 Grendel. They aren't all That crazy expensive, and they are really nice looking rifles.

.357 Mag was really an after thought, and I'm not 100% how well it's accepted as a white tail round (in Florida, all center fire rounds are legal). I would guess with a rifle, you should be able to shoot .357 Mag at least 100 yards vs targets, and possibly 150-200, but that would probably be a stretch. It could possibly be a Cheap plinker, deer rifle, and low recoil. I don't think it would be as good for true target shooting as real rifle calibers.

 

[paulsharvey]

And just what does it do that cartridges that have been around decades cannot do?

25-6 Remington Beats 6.5 Creedmoor? - Ron Spomer Outdoors

I didn't say it did anything others don't. What does .308 Win do better than 7mm Mauser? I don't know that you have to say one is better, as long as it serves a practical nitch,

I really don't know what separates 6.5 Creedmore from .260 Win, they are both .308 cases with 6.5mm bullets; what is the difference between .243 Win and 6mm Creedmore? They are both 6mm bullets stuffed in .308...

 

[paulsharvey]

Thanks everyone, I have really enjoyed this thread.

I hadn't considered the 6.5 Grendel before. Unfortunately outside of the AR only Ruger and Howa have factory offerings that I can find.

Reloading 308 win to lighter weight, subsonic and cast lead into the 30-30, 300blk range successfully presents the question why not load 6.5cm to the slower Grendel level until the young man wants the full power cm?

If you were considering 357 then a flat trajectory isn't a requirement. For a real shock look up the price of a Ruger 77/357!

Interesting choices to be made.

Honestly I'm not really sure, maybe 6.5 Creedmore would be a good option. I don't know how it recoils with normal ammo. I would think 140 gr at 2750 fps (rough numbers from thin air, but I think close) would have some pretty significant recoil. There is a Ton of reloading info online for 6.5 CM, and in my part of the world, it's on the Academy selves with 2 or 3 types, were 6.5 Grendel is not as (Locally) stocked. I think Creedmore has passed the stage of just dieing away like all of the WSSM (Winchester super short magnums), but will it ever be stocked at Ace Hardware like .223/.243/.308/.270/.30-06/.30-30?

Does 6.5 Creedmore offer anything extra within 300 yards over .243 or .308? Does is recoil less than the .308?

Downloading is an interesting option, and you do raise an interesting point.

 

[FarmWrench]

What aids the modem cartridges isn't in the cartridge but in what the rifling twist rate is. I didn't read the article but I imagine that if a 100 25-06 rifles were gathered up a 1:10 twist would be the norm. The 6.5cm went right to 1:8? Allowing longer and heavier bullets to be stabilized.

^not my idea. See Richard Mann's blog.

Basically the standard for the barrel gets rewritten with the new chambering.

 

[mbohuntr]

You should also consider the availability of different types and weights of ammo... You can't really hunt with target ammo.... Better chance of wounding...

 

[FarmWrench]

Within 300....... that I don't know. Some can claim the 5R rifling used with most of these new fangled chamberings over the old 6groove but I wouldn't make that claim.

Recoil is definitely less between 308 vs 6.5cm.

38/357 loaded with cast lead gives great rounds/$. As powder and components get ever more expensive the 5/10gns less powder that the 6.5cm burns vs308win doesn't seem like much at first. Something like that Grendel that uses a lot less powder and really doesn't sacrifice much inside of 300 yards is why I started looking at it.

 

[paulsharvey]

You should also consider the availability of different types and weights of ammo... You can't really hunt with target ammo.... Better chance of wounding...

If I would get 7.62x39 or .223, I would be ordering good quality hunting ammo, not letting him shoot deer with FMJs. There is increasing stuff out there, but for hunting rounds, your not shooting more than Maybe 20 rnds/year.

 

[FarmWrench]

The problem with the communist 30 is the range of bullet diameter and different bore sizes.

 

[paulsharvey]

The problem with the communist 30 is the range of bullet diameter and different bore sizes.

Commercially, you can order 123 gr Federal Fusions, and I can tell you a 120 gr Federal Fusion 6.5 at 2500 FPS will do a deer in, so surely 123 gr at 2400 fps, with a .310 diameter would do the job. Also, I know it's controversial but I would have no issue shooting deer with 154gr Wolf Soft Points. Everything I've heard is to avoid the Tula/Wolf/Barnaul/Bear Hollow points, they are not expanding; but never heard anything bad about the 154gr SP.

As far as reloading, I think Brass for Grendel and 7.62x39 are both expensive, and there is no 'once fired' available. That is a Huge plus to the .308 'Family', where you can get a 500 count bag and size into .308, .243, ?6.5 Creedmore?, 7mm-08, for $50/500... (not 100% sure if you can size .308 into 6.5 CM?)