Comparison Tier IV Questions For Messicks

[JerryK]

My 2017 Mahindra [ Mitsubishi built ] 1526 HST is supposedly 19.1 KW, 25.6 hp.... It is Tier IV, and has no emissions controls on it.

TractorData.com Mahindra 1526 tractor engine information

 

[DieselBound]

My 2017 Mahindra [ Mitsubishi built ] 1526 HST is supposedly 19.1 KW, 25.6 hp.... It is Tier IV, and has no emissions controls on it.

TractorData.com Mahindra 1526 tractor engine information

I believe that it's got an EGR valve in it, and, they use DOC (basically a catalytic converter). The DOC is passive (don't think anything is monitored). EGR bits, however, require some controlling.

 

[JerryK]

I believe that it's got an EGR valve in it, and, they use DOC (basically a catalytic converter). The DOC is passive (don't think anything is monitored). EGR bits, however, require some controlling.

The 1526 has no EGR controller, it is just a basic Mitsubishi old school manual injector pump indirect injected non-DOC [ non MCRD ] motor.

 

[DieselBound]

The 1526 has no EGR controller, it is just a basic Mitsubishi old school manual injector pump indirect injected non-DOC [ non MCRD ] motor.

Does that mean it has no EGR valve? Mahindra's documentation does a lot of talking about EGR. Unclear which engine models utilize it: there are statements that it's used in their mCRD stuff, which the 1526 documentation labels as mCRD. From their current[?] documentation on this series:

Cleaner Exhaust Emissions at Lower Cost
- Diesel Oxidation Catalyst (DOC) after treatment system in mCRDdoes not require any
high heat regeneration and meets emissions standards at lower cost, less complexity and
no involvement from the operator.

I think that we're struggling with the word "control" a bit. It's all emissions "control," though how the control components operate would come down to whether they are active or passive. According to Mahindra this series does utilize emissions control utilizing DOC (passive device). Wasn't clear or sure whether an EGR was being used: not a big deal- I have EGR on my 2000 VW TDIs (which I've taken measures to basically eliminate the issues of coking up the EGR valve and intake manifolds).

 

[NYCheese]

You can take swipes at Cali all you want, but it don't change the realities of emissions. If you think it's all crap try taking a visit to some place like Manila: I have plenty of exposure to Manila- anyone saying that they enjoy all the extremely hardcore soot emitted from old diesel engines in Manila is insane. Heck, drive behind a 60s era gasser and tell me that you like the stench. I prefer the non-stench and the reduced soot, thank you very much. That said...

The Big Picture has not, IMO, been fully given. I don't think that the full pollutant load from design (work done to create the designs), manufacture (including mining of materials), operate (regens and maintenance) and dispose of this newer stuff is adequately measured such that it tells us if things come out a net positive.

And... I have only ONE piece of equipment that is Tier IV (my Kioti): rest is from the decade of the 90s (up to 2000)- I'd prefer if these things were less stinky and less soot producing, but they're machines that I have signed up to, and can, maintain.

My swipe at California didn't really have anything specifically to do with tractors or emissions.... I totally get most of it. I personally have incurable lung disease from working as an electrician my whole life, breathing all kinds of junk in. Anything that makes the air better is a good thing in my opinion. I just think California takes it too far in some regards.

My comment was meant in jest, largely because it seems like everything I order from Amazon lately has one of those stickers on it. ****, I just ordered a cartridge replacement for my bathroom faucet, and apparently even that causes cancer in California.

 

[DieselBound]

Got it!

The plumbing stuff has to do with lead in brass: lead and children don't go together well. And one thinks back to the the good old days California's favorite son Ronald Regan was pitching cigarettes as being good for you!

There's a toxicity level for anything: one can die of drinking too much water! Trick is to find and stay back from the point at which it occurs.

One of my aunt's husbands died from Asbestosis. He'd worked in the shipyards (Navy ships).

 

[terryknight]

i have a 2650 it has no EGR it may have a DOC on the exhaust, but i always thought it was just a muffler. supposedly it has 26hp (19.4KW)

 

[JerryK]

Does that mean it has no EGR valve? Mahindra's documentation does a lot of talking about EGR. Unclear which engine models utilize it: there are statements that it's used in their mCRD stuff, which the 1526 documentation labels as mCRD. From their current[?] documentation on this series:

Cleaner Exhaust Emissions at Lower Cost
- Diesel Oxidation Catalyst (DOC) after treatment system in mCRDdoes not require any
high heat regeneration and meets emissions standards at lower cost, less complexity and
no involvement from the operator.

I think that we're struggling with the word "control" a bit. It's all emissions "control," though how the control components operate would come down to whether they are active or passive. According to Mahindra this series does utilize emissions control utilizing DOC (passive device). Wasn't clear or sure whether an EGR was being used: not a big deal- I have EGR on my 2000 VW TDIs (which I've taken measures to basically eliminate the issues of coking up the EGR valve and intake manifolds).

Nothing coming off the exhaust except an old school muffler on the 1526, no EGR...

 

[jeff9366]

Emission Standards: USA: Nonroad Diesel Engines


Jeff - this looks like what you are searching for.............

Re: GUIDE: Shopping/Sizing A Tractor (Version 1.0)

During 1998 nonroad engine regulations reducing emissions were structured as a 3-tiered progression. Nonroad regulations use the metric system of units, with regulatory limits expressed in grams of pollutant per kWh. Examples of regulated applications include farm tractors, excavators, bulldozers, wheel loaders, backhoe loaders, road graders, diesel lawn tractors, logging equipment, portable generators, skid steer loaders and forklifts.

Each tier involved a phase-in (by engine power) over several years. Tier 1 standards phased-in from 1996 to 2000. Tier 2 standards phased-in from 2001 to 2006. Tier 3 standards phased-in from 2006 to 2008 (Tier 3 standards applied only for engines from 37-560 kW).

Very stringent Tier 4 emission standards, phased-in from 2008 through 2015, require substantial reductions of Particulate Matter above 19 kW power output.


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Every tractor brand includes a model in the 2,600 pound to 2,900 pound (bare tractor) range with 100 cubic inch/24 horsepower engine ample for your tasks. Tractors under 19 kW ( 19 KW = 25.4794-horsepower) are presently exempt from stringent Tier IV emission controls which abruptly increase a tractor's cost some $2,000 above the 19 kW power demarcation.



ARTICLE ON NON-ROAD DIESEL ENGINE EMISSION CONTROLS PROVIDED BY OOSIK.
Thank you, OOSIK.

 

[jeff9366]

The number your looking for is 19KW which is 25.5 HP if your scientific about it.

All the models you listed are Tier 4 compliant, all tractors today have to be. However the requirements differ depending on the HP range, and under this magic number no DPF is required to scrub the soot from the exhaust.

I get the first part.

B2601 specs 25.5 horsepower, right on the demarcation line. or OVER, if 19KW is interpreted as 25.479 horsepower.
B2601: Tier IV (or) NOT Tier IV? DPF?

B2650 specs 26 horsepower, clearly requiring Tier IV emission controls.
Does B2650 have DPF? (or) What is unique about B2650 that Kubota can achieve Tier IV emission standards without a DPF?

Apparently (??) Kubota found a way to reduce particulate matter exhaust from the small displacement B2601 and B2650 engines so they meet Tire IV requirements with engineering/technology omitting a Diesel Particulate Filter. (DPF)


Can anyone expand on this?