Winter diesel without headaches [Snow PUMP sub-thread]

[Katahdin]

You're about 375 miles northeast of me. Two thoughts:

1). What brand of diesel do you use? I've used Irving down to -20C without problems and additives. I would trust winter fuel from the Saint John refinery in New Brunswick over fuel imported from the States.

2). Have you inspected and cleaned the tank in your cat? Maybe your water problems originate there from years of condensation and microbe growth.

 

[fitterski]

No, I am referring to buying fuel from a good supplier such as a high-volume gas station that a lot of truck drivers use, rather than getting fuel from a little Podunk gas station that might go through a tank of diesel per month and has 6 in of water in the bottom of their fuel tank.
As for alcohol in the additive, Power Service Red I believe does have alcohol in it, but it is for emergency use only. Power Service White does not (or does not have much) and we have not had any issues with fuel gelling in fuel that we put Power Service White into.
We generally put the Power Service White into our hundred gallon bulk tank when it gets filled up and it seems to be fine throughout the winter even when the temperature drops into the single digits.

My concerns using the exhaust to pre-heat your fuel is that:
1. It will get too hot
2. That you will wear through a line, spring a leak and light it on fire...

Aaron Z

You're probably right about the fire hazard, that method is just under study. The fuel I get is from very large volume suppliers, absolutely no problems there. But I HAD been storing it in 45 gallon drums without agitation. Finally congealing isn't my problem, it's water content either liquid (separable) or as cristalline suspension. Even winter grade fuel with much lower water content manages to leave a few quarts of water sitting at the bottom of the barrel later next summer. But it's really much more complex then this, gotta run now, be back later

 

[Fallon]

You're probably right about the fire hazard, that method is just under study. The fuel I get is from very large volume suppliers, absolutely no problems there. But I HAD been storing it in 45 gallon drums without agitation. Finally congealing isn't my problem, it's water content either liquid (separable) or as cristalline suspension. Even winter grade fuel with much lower water content manages to leave a few quarts of water sitting at the bottom of the barrel later next summer. But it's really much more complex then this, gotta run now, be back later

Generally that water showing up in the bottom will be the result of condensation or water leaking in.

Were your tanks sealed or vented? If vented air moving in & out as the tank breathes as it heats & cools during the day will pull moist air in to condense.

 

[fitterski]

Proof of concept prototype is as done as it's going to get this year. 3/8" polycarb pieces on the iside of inspection and light windows sealed with 1/8" nitril gaskets and stainless screws about 1/2" on center.

3rd row of pictures @

http://trixtar.org/3/tinkerings/blower1/index.html


The LED light module is on top and has a toggle switch. Inside the inspection window the intake end of the suction hose is clearly visible but my pride really revolves around the analog thermometer inside! It over reads by 5c, no big deal. I've started shakedown runs with the blower, engine preheat is 1500 watts of the circulation type. I had thought of using a Canadian Polar Pad but the chief over there there told me I was nuts, just like some have done here, on account of it being a fire hazard. Dumped. I might coil the intake of the engine preheater (coming back from the engine) through the tank for preheat (next summer). Most ops will last less than 2 hours so preheat might be all that's required, time will tell.

 

[crashz]

A few quarts of water in a drum seems like a lot of water. I think there is a problem in your fuel storage or possibly source. Venting or leaking from outside storage or something. Diesel will absorb some of that water, so your fuel is literally saturated. You may not be able to treat out that much water and your heating situation is only dealing with the symptoms.

If you fuel just by sealed Jerry cans, you may solve your issues. The sealed 5 gallon cans will not condensate much and you should keep them in dry places. You should also treat each can with your favorite brand (PS, Howes, etc) anti-gel. This combo will probably help clear up your situation, but if you still have gelling issues, try spiking the fuel with a little kerosene too. I typically run 4:1 diesel/ kero mix with additive and it keeps the lines nice and clear.

 

[LouNY]

Finally congealing isn't my problem, it's water content either liquid (separable) or as cristalline suspension.

If you are seeing floating particles in your fuel when its cold, below freezing that isn't ice floating it is wax particulates separating out of your fuel and waiting to plug a filter. Any water even frozen is heavier then fuel oil and will settle to the bottom of a tank or drum.

 

[fitterski]

A few quarts of water in a drum seems like a lot of water. I think there is a problem in your fuel storage or possibly source. Venting or leaking from outside storage or something. Diesel will absorb some of that water, so your fuel is literally saturated. You may not be able to treat out that much water and your heating situation is only dealing with the symptoms.

If you fuel just by sealed Jerry cans, you may solve your issues. The sealed 5 gallon cans will not condensate much and you should keep them in dry places. You should also treat each can with your favorite brand (PS, Howes, etc) anti-gel. This combo will probably help clear up your situation, but if you still have gelling issues, try spiking the fuel with a little kerosene too. I typically run 4:1 diesel/ kero mix with additive and it keeps the lines nice and clear.

i just moved away from drum storage, too old to toss those around. I called the former petro canada refinery once and they told me the heating oil and pump diesel were one and the same identical product varying in the degree of refinement (by steam?) according to seasonal temperatures. Color is added to heating oil for tax purposes, no longer a factor because both products are now very close in after tax price. So, the diesel i get at the pump or the heating fuel i get from my delivery truck into drums or into jerry cans both contain exactly the same amount of water, some in the summer and less in winter.

My problems have revolved around what I thought to be ice crystals in suspension. I would typically fill 'em up (4-6 drums) in late November when the arctic grade product hits the market. Come march the last drums have been sittin' still for 4 months! Another old timer (I've only been into this stuff for a decade) told me to stop stockpiling and my problems will vanish. So that's what I'm trying this winter, half a dozen cans from the pump at a time.

 

[fitterski]

If you are seeing floating particles in your fuel when its cold, below freezing that isn't ice floating it is wax particulates separating out of your fuel and waiting to plug a filter. Any water even frozen is heavier then fuel oil and will settle to the bottom of a tank or drum.

THAT's a new one for me Lou, very interesting. All I can affirm is that one freakin' cold morning i just couldn't start the cat-426 at all anymore. The prob had been getting worse with time. I ended up TS-ing that nothing was coming from the tank. I emptied it and went in with the mirror to see the intake end of the pickup pipe completely blocked by what i took to be ice seeing that it later melted away. It was accrued in typical tulip bulb fashion inside and outside the tube end where sudden flow-direction change was involved. There was no sign of any water or ice as such in the emptied contents.

Wax it may have been, it looked like water to me after it melted. Regardless, this little tank is a prototype, as a minimum I want to clearly see the fuel in the tank, the pickup pipe end, the fuel temperature, and the drain pit inside the tank. A prime pump and heat, at least in the form of preheat may follow. I'm already drawing the cut lines for the cat-426 tank to be redone along similar lines.

BTW are you sure that tiny ice crystals will sink out of suspension? I've read contradicting material, like how would they then end up plugging filters but the problem vanish as soon as the filter gets heated?

 

[LouNY]

Wax particles will dissolve back into the fuel at just a tad bit warmer then when they appear, so if enough get to afilter to coat the outside of the filter as soon as you warm up the filter or get a lighter fuel #1 into contact it will dissolve.
If you have a high powered engine sucking lots of fuel you can get a filter so plugged that not even #1 can cut it out.

 

[RickB]

Using an LED as a heat source is a waste of time, just like debating with a bunch of guys with cold weather diesel fuel management experience.