2014 Cabela's LM35H - Electrical Issue - Help Needed

[Seasoul]

BLUF: The "fuel shut off solenoid" stays electrically charged (hot) once started, unable to turn-off with key switch, burning up wires and solenoid.

REQUEST: I am in need of the electrical wiring diagram and electrical part numbers list for my 2014 Cabela's LM35H tractor.

QUESTION: Is there a difference in the control assembly for a TYM 354H (Part Number: 1472-680-210-2) and a Cabela's LM35H (Part Number: 1472-680-210-3)?

ENVIRONMENTALS: Replaced Wiring Harnesses, Relays and Controller Assembly after a SNAFU that burnt up the EOM wiring harness. Everything appears to be functioning fine with one exception, the "fuel shut off solenoid" stays electrically charged (hot) once started. The local John Deere dealership has been helping me out, though we have not been successful in finding the Cabela's wiring diagram for this tractor. We do have the TYM shop manual, though it leaves much to be desired and has not proven to be of value with respect to this issue.

NARRATIVE SITREP: I purchased this tractor approximately 6 months ago from the original owner. At the time it had 14.1 hours logged, not a single scratch and nipples on the tires. The tractor was 100% operational, not a single issue and it worked perfectly for my needs.

Fast forward 3 months, a little over 30 hours logged, and it had been setting unused for about a week prior.
Sunday morning at 0600 my dogs start barking and I awake to my tractor sitting under the lean-to..... "running". No one is around (validated through security cameras), the key is NOT in the ignition, but sure enough..... it's just sitting there running (thought it was God's way of telling me to get to work).

I drove it to the garage to investigate, but by the time I got there the wiring harness had already began to burn up. After shedding a tear, I reached out to the local TYM dealer requesting assistance. They were more than happy to sell me parts, but did not have the man power to take on the job of repairing my tractor. After replacing the main and dash wiring harnesses as well as the battery terminals, I started the tractor, which immediately led to the new wiring harness going up in smoke.

Since then it has been at the JD Dealer, it's all back together, but the "fuel shut off solenoid" stays electrically charged (hot) once started.

I've reached out to Cabela's where the tractor was originally purchased, who were extremely nice, they pointed me to the company that services their tractors. Everyone thus far has been very pleasant to interact with, but nobody seems to be able to crack the riddle of the "fuel shut off solenoid" staying hot.

TRACTOR INFO:
2014 Cabelas LM35H Tractor 4x4
Serial Number: 35NJG00008
Model: Agricultural Tractor LM35H
Type: 4 Cycle Diesel
Engine: 35ps / 2700 RPM
Manufacturer: Tong Yang Moolsaw Co., Ltd (TYM)
Brand: Cabela's

Any assistance would be greatly appreciated.

S/F

 

[Ford850]

What did the JD dealer do to solve the problem? I would start there since they fixed one problem but possibly created another.

 

[Coyote machine]

Sounds like a relay may have locked, (welded) contacts not allowing the solenoid to unlatch. The solenoid is a shutoff and shouldn't be energized unless you're trying to turn the tractor off. If you start it now will it burn up another harness? If so I'd take out each relay and clearly tag it as to where it goes. Then try installing them one by one until the issue shows up. And maybe see if any have a burnt smell. All I can suggest until you find a wiring diagram...

 

[stevem5215]

I'll say this, knowing electronics as i do there should never be wiring system burn up with proper fuses in place. So with that said I'd start at the fuse box and work my way from there. The main distribution of electric is from there and that's one of the few places where you would have the amps available to get a "short" and not blow a fuse as the main are not usually fused from there back to the battery.

As for why the solenoid is still activated. I would just follow the wiring back till you find the source. Maybe a mouse chewed through some wires behind the dash or like and there's now some shorted wiring. Again though the fuses should blow first but may not depending on the wiring. Also, the ignition switches on some machines are known to short internally and do crazy things like this. Again you have to follow the wires themselves. You will need to find a schematic somewhere. That's going to be needed.

Steve Electronics guy who once "helped" a friend with the wiring on a 1990 Pathfinder and did 200 + connections after a fire and made it work again. It was a PIA.

 

[Coyote machine]

I tend to agree with Steve above, about possible fuse block wiring tracing to the source of the issue.
IF however the OP is not well versed in the use of a VOM and troubleshooting wiring systems, it may be difficult at best without a wiring schematic. So, absent a schematic, I'm thinking if you, the OP, disconnect the battery ground cable from the negative post and locate the wires going to the fuel shut-off solenoid, disconnect them from the solenoid and then trace them back to whichever relay they connect to and report back to here, we may be able to further help you figure this issue out, even without a schematic. Not saying it will be easy, but with your help we can give you ours.

Pics of the location of the fuse block, relay(s) location, and fuel solenoid, showing wire configuration, will help us too. Pay strict attention and map out what color wire goes to every contact point, even if it seems obvious, map it and take pics so you can reconnect exactly how it was.
Tell us what your level of experience is regarding electrical troubleshooting too, so we know what to expect and level of understanding we are working with.

Lets get some basics. # hours on machine, when where did the first fire happen? Does the tractor sit out in the weather normally? Have mice been seen or their excrement on the tractor surfaces?
Prior to the fire, have you seen any evidence of any rodent damage to wiring or otherwise?
I'll be back...

 

[Bud Soda]

Maybe contact TYM in Wilson. Maybe they have seen this problem before.

 

[Ford850]

Here's the post from the OP with pics and videos.
https://www.tractorbynet.com/forums...r-need-help-wires.html?highlight=#post5108470

And a post about another TYM burning up the harness.
https://www.tractorbynet.com/forums...353-hst-need-help.html?highlight=#post5186802

 

[Coyote machine]

What occurs to me is the OP is saying the fuel shutoff solenoid is what is staying locked on when in fact it is the starter solenoid, that's hot, but not making the starter continue to engage after the tractor starts, (without the key switch being turned to the crank (engine) position).

If this is not the case, please say so, because the two solenoids are for completely different purposes, and fixing the problem would take a different approach.

I've read what others have experienced, and though similar, the causes maybe different.

IF each 'firestarter' tractor is burning wires at the starter solenoid then there is a likely common cause, but one fire seems to have been as a result of 'acts of God' and maybe an insurance claim due to hail damage on homeowner's property. That's not a faulty harness, relay or starter, etc. Its a result of a fluke 'accident', having no fault on the part of the tractor manufacturer.

I'd like some further data on the EOM burn up and how that came about and its resolution and so-on. Sometimes last thing touched, the EOM's wiring harness may have led to the other more recent harness burn and starter solenoid overheat/fire...

 

[Seasoul]

What occurs to me is the OP is saying the fuel shutoff solenoid is what is staying locked on when in fact it is the starter solenoid, that's hot, but not making the starter continue to engage after the tractor starts, (without the key switch being turned to the crank (engine) position).

If this is not the case, please say so, because the two solenoids are for completely different purposes, and fixing the problem would take a different approach.

I've read what others have experienced, and though similar, the causes maybe different.

IF each 'firestarter' tractor is burning wires at the starter solenoid then there is a likely common cause, but one fire seems to have been as a result of 'acts of God' and maybe an insurance claim due to hail damage on homeowner's property. That's not a faulty harness, relay or starter, etc. Its a result of a fluke 'accident', having no fault on the part of the tractor manufacturer.

I'd like some further data on the EOM burn up and how that came about and its resolution and so-on. Sometimes last thing touched, the EOM's wiring harness may have led to the other more recent harness burn and starter solenoid overheat/fire...

Thank you for your assistance.

The root cause of initial issue with the wiring harness melting is still unknown.
However, there were a few anomalies prior to this event.
One day the tractor would not start, acted like the battery was dead.
Put a jump-pack on it, nothing changed.
I checked the connections and nothing appeared to be amiss.
Tried jumping it from my truck, still nothing.
The next day, started right up like there wasn't ever an issue at all.
This was weird, but at the time, seemed inconsequential being as though the tractor appeared to be working fine.
So I wrote if off as an anomaly.
Then a week or so later, that is when the tractor became possessed and started by itself and ultimately caught on fire (wiring harness).

After the initial SNAFU, I replaced both wiring harnesses and battery cables.
The tractor would not do anything, no power could be verified through looking at the dash once everything was connected. It would not start, turn-over or even display a light on the dash.
In trying to determine what the issue was, I admittedly smoked the 2d set of harnesses when I switched two connectors polarity (instant smoke show).

After that, I called around looking for a shop that would take a look at the tractor. The local TYM dealer wouldn't, he gave me a number to call, they wouldn't either.
I called 5-6 places in NC, none would work on the tractor.
Finally I called called John Deere, who said bring it on down, we will take a look, though we typically don't work on those (TYM or Cabela's).
I reordered the following parts (last four digits of the part number in parenthesis) and delivered it all to John Deere when I dropped the tractor off:
- Main Wiring Harness (3001)
- Engine Wiring Harness (2000)
- 5 Prong Relays (2901)
- Pre Heat Relat (1110)
- Glow Time Switch (2100)
- Controllers (2102)
- Ignition Switch (2402)

Where are we now
The Fuel Shut-Off Solenoid is staying electrically charged (constantly on vice momentary on) once the tractor is started.
The electrical signal should be momentary to the Fuel Shut Off Solenoid, just long enough to retract the plunger and allow for fuel to flow.
However, with the constant charge there are are problems that result:
1 - The tractor will continue to run when the ignition (key) is switched to off
2 - The constant electrical charge heats up the wires until they melt.
3- The constant electrical charge and heat destroy the fuel shut off solenoid.

In the initial videos I posted, the starter itself was staying engaged. The root cause of that issue still remains unsolved. However, it became OBE (overcome by events) once the new wiring harnesses (engine & main) were installed (it only happened the initial time, not since).

Earlier this week I realized the Controller Assembly that I purchased had a different part number and part name. The TYM rep says "it should work". Regardless, I purchased another Controller Assembly with the exact same Part Number, it should be in this week.
This also begs the question, did I get the correct wiring harnesses? Seeing as though the original was badly burnt, it was difficult to do a side-by-side comparison,though they did marry-up to the fittings on the tractor.

All the relays were metered & tested.
All grounds and connections validated.

Thanks again for your assistance!

 

[Coyote machine]

Wow, this is needing an exorcist or voodoo doctor to purge the bad juju! :fiery::duh:

So, what it seems you haven't replaced to date is the actual ignition switch. Though it may or may not be the culprit for your woes, I would surely want to include it in the items replaced on the off chance that if not included in the replacement items, it could easily be overlooked, to your detriment and further frustration.

If it were my tractor, I would do the following before anything else bad happens. 1st I'd buy and install a battery isolation switch, and install it on the negative post immediately. Only allow the switch to be on when someone is working on troubleshooting the tractor, then turn it off. NO EXCEPTIONS.
Battery Doc Top-Mount Knob Battery Disconnect Switch w/ Fused Bypass | GEMPLER'S

2nd, remove the existing battery and have it thoroughly tested by competent person. This means, remove it from the tractor, charge it to full charge, then let it sit for a couple of hours. Afterwards, use a high end load tester, Snap-on brand or similar, and read what the actual state of the battery is. If there are any faults to read correctly, replace it with a brand new, fresh stock Interstate or other top brand from a reliable shop.
I'd want you or the Deere guys to rule out your fuse block for any possible issues, loose, burnt, corroded fuse holders, weak or broken solder joints, if present, and carefully scope out the back of the block too for any connection or other issues. It is probably an inexpensive item so if it seems like it might be a problem I'd get a replacement one.
I'm not advocating parts replacement for troubleshooting the actual cause; instead I'm suggesting crucial parts that interconnect the entire electrical system be closely scrutinized and then replaced if warranted.
This way you lessen the chance that a wait and see if the harnesses or solenoids become energized via a fault were to occur, you'd be again forced to continue replacing harnesses. That's no way to troubleshoot. The plus of having a battery switch in place is hopefully being able to shut off power to the entire electrical system instantly, and when the tractor is in the shop there is much less chance of it starting because it 'feels like it'.

I suspect that your random yet repeatable problem may be tied to an electronic item that intermittently creates a 'hot' path that activates the starter solenoid, and in one instance kept the starter engaged, cranking the engine, instead of releasing the Bendix and de-energizing the starter solenoid.

I believe you said you had to replace the starter's solenoid, and if not and even if you did, I would also consider having the entire starter tested off the tractor to see if there is any damage to it, faulty ground or other internal wiring issues present. Again, without doing tests on it you can't yet rule it out of being part of the problem.

Also, does your tractor have cruise control, PTO switch, etc., or any after sale accessories like switched aux lights, etc.?
If you could find a way to match your harnesses to your tractor's serial # and date of manufacture, that would be useful to confirm you have the right EOM, relays #s and modules throughout. These items often change or get modified as production and serial #s progress. The people you're buying these parts from must have some method of identifying the correct item match-ups.
Hopefully this will help you do a process of elimination prior to any more fires or similar. Keep at it, we'll get it, fixed. but it may take some amount of time tracking it down to the cause. :thumbsup: