Thinking about going Solar.

[ultrarunner]

Those I know that embrace it see it as a lifestyle choice... and they have systems that are well thought out... some totally off grid.

I'm venturing into solar as the home I just bought has a 3 array hillside setup...

I don't know anything about the particulars because the owner that installed the system... retired Telco Engineer passed away...

Neighbors said he was quite a guy... when asked why he was installing solar he went into great detail and loved being net zero...

Will know more after I take procession...

 

[BoFuller]

Not to be a Debbie downer, but I think you forgot to offset your predicted savings by the money that could be earned alternatively if you invested the same money in something else. For instance $30k invested in an s&p fund averaging 8% a year, or better yet, a REIT stock paying 10% dividends. Compound that for 25 years time... that is unless you relish the idea of maintaining 25 Year old battery banks

Something to consider, but then a lot of us could consider that when it comes to the cost of a new pickup or tractor. Some of us could get by without that 50K tractor and just pay someone to mow. Some of us could get by without that 50K pickup and just rent one when we really have to haul something.
Sometimes its not all financial, but what is important to us individually.

 

[EddieWalker]

Reading everyone's comments about doing what you can to lower your energy bill by adding some solar brings up something that I've been thinking about. Here in the South, AC is our biggest user of energy. That isn't going to change. Second biggest use is the water heater. I've been thinking of running a long water line from the cold water supply into the water heater up into my attic to warm up the water before it gets to the water heater. I haven't done any research on this, but it seems to me that if the water is already hot when it gets to the water heater, it shouldn't cost as much to keep it warm as it does to heat it up. I would use something like PEX that is continues so there would never be a leak, and spread it out over as much area in the attic as I can so it gets as hot as possible. In winter, I would probably have to stop it from being up there because it might freeze, so I would need valves for that, and probably a drain line to get the water out of the line in the attic. Even though PEX is rated to freeze and not break, it seems like a good idea to just not have any water in the line for winter. For what it costs in materials, I think that this is something that might show a return fairly quickly. But again, it's just a thought that I've had without anything to support it. And since I don't know of anybody that has done this, I wonder what am I missing?

 

[ultrarunner]

A lot of the engineer co-workers I have in Austria made simple black poly coils to keep their swimming pools warm in the summer months... it worked amazingly well during the season and these pools are very small by what we would think...

In winter... the lines are drained or simply removed.

 

[AndyMA]

Reading everyone's comments about doing what you can to lower your energy bill by adding some solar brings up something that I've been thinking about. Here in the South, AC is our biggest user of energy. That isn't going to change. Second biggest use is the water heater. I've been thinking of running a long water line from the cold water supply into the water heater up into my attic to warm up the water before it gets to the water heater. I haven't done any research on this, but it seems to me that if the water is already hot when it gets to the water heater, it shouldn't cost as much to keep it warm as it does to heat it up. I would use something like PEX that is continues so there would never be a leak, and spread it out over as much area in the attic as I can so it gets as hot as possible. In winter, I would probably have to stop it from being up there because it might freeze, so I would need valves for that, and probably a drain line to get the water out of the line in the attic. Even though PEX is rated to freeze and not break, it seems like a good idea to just not have any water in the line for winter. For what it costs in materials, I think that this is something that might show a return fairly quickly. But again, it's just a thought that I've had without anything to support it. And since I don't know of anybody that has done this, I wonder what am I missing?

Eddie,

Think Heat Pump Water heater & Minisplits (inverter air sources heat pumps for heating & cooling)
I heat my pool with an air sourced heat pump. Even oif I paid for electricity, it would be way cheaper than natural gas ( and incredibly cheaper than propane)

Andy

 

[newbury]

<snip>The technology isn't there yet for it to be a practical replacement to city power, and if you remove the government incentives, very few people would have it. Sadly, the government got into the business of selling a product at the tax payers expense that allowed companies to make an inferior product that wasn't ready to be used to power homes, and as soon as the government quit giving out money to keep them in business, they quit selling that product. <snip>

When the government starts giving money for something to be done a lot of poor work gets done. In the early '80's the big thing was solar water heating. Companies would put a solar panel on your roof and get you [in] hot water.

We interviewed 3 companies for our house in Virginia. They all wanted us to spend thousands for getting hot water, and that was cost to us after thousands in govt. rebates. I'd had several years under my belt as a roofer by then and I knew it was not smart to poke holes in roofs. But a lot of other suckers didn't. There must have been 10 in my little neighborhood that got suckered in. You'd see the new solar panels on the roofs. They are all gone.

Truth: Most folks who go off-grid fail and are more than happy to move back to civilization. I have toured many of these failed "homesteads" and marvel that people managed to live there as long as they did. Yurts, quonset huts, shacks cobbled together with pallet wood and junkyard windows in the vain hope that "solar gain" will offset heat loss due to the single pane windows plus a general lack of insulation..... I have yurt-dwelling friends that can't sleep more than 2 hours at a time in winter due to the need to add more wood to the stove. I also have homesteading friends who have lived without any comforts whatsoever for over 25 years while waiting for the end times to come. <snip>

My Grandfather's generation had a lot of people coming from "the land" - no-electricity, no running water situations. My generation had a lot of hippies moving "back to the land" and doing it poorly and a few that did it well. One generation rushed to get educated and on the grid, one got educated and rushed to get off the grid.

I'm a big believer in having more than one source of energy; it just makes sense.

Always have a backup or a way out.

Something to consider, but then a lot of us could consider that when it comes to the cost of a new pickup or tractor. Some of us could get by without that 50K tractor and just pay someone to mow. Some of us could get by without that 50K pickup and just rent one when we really have to haul something.
Sometimes its not all financial, but what is important to us individually.

It's always what it important to us individually, sometimes that is financial.

There are many places where solar does not make sense financially but there are other options - collect rainwater, don't worry about a well pump. Thick walls with great insulation and live with a wide range of inside temperature.

 

[Budweiser John]

Reading everyone's comments about doing what you can to lower your energy bill by adding some solar brings up something that I've been thinking about. Here in the South, AC is our biggest user of energy. That isn't going to change. Second biggest use is the water heater. I've been thinking of running a long water line from the cold water supply into the water heater up into my attic to warm up the water before it gets to the water heater. I haven't done any research on this, but it seems to me that if the water is already hot when it gets to the water heater, it shouldn't cost as much to keep it warm as it does to heat it up. I would use something like PEX that is continues so there would never be a leak, and spread it out over as much area in the attic as I can so it gets as hot as possible. In winter, I would probably have to stop it from being up there because it might freeze, so I would need valves for that, and probably a drain line to get the water out of the line in the attic. Even though PEX is rated to freeze and not break, it seems like a good idea to just not have any water in the line for winter. For what it costs in materials, I think that this is something that might show a return fairly quickly. But again, it's just a thought that I've had without anything to support it. And since I don't know of anybody that has done this, I wonder what am I missing?

Think about it this way. A garden hose lying in the sun will pick up a significant amount of solar heeet until you open the nozzle on the down stream end. At that point the water supply will refill the hose and depending on the length will exhaust the hot water contained there in and you end up with cold water.

The concept you speak of will work with a small circulating pump on a separate loop independent from the inboard supply that will constantly circulate the water from the tank through the attic space and back to the bottom of the tank. I would include a thermal interconnect in the system to shut the loop down thus preventing the heat gain to become excessive and also a pressure relief valve drained to a location other than the attic as a safety measure should the attic loop become over heated during the times the circulating pump is off line. A seasonal system drain and check valves should also be included.

Bottom line, a few bucks worth of off the shelf Home Desperate fittings and a little tinkering around could add up to some significant savings.

B. John

 

[GirlWhoWantsTractor]

Reading everyone's comments about doing what you can to lower your energy bill by adding some solar brings up something that I've been thinking about. Here in the South, AC is our biggest user of energy. That isn't going to change. Second biggest use is the water heater. I've been thinking of running a long water line from the cold water supply into the water heater up into my attic to warm up the water before it gets to the water heater. I haven't done any research on this, but it seems to me that if the water is already hot when it gets to the water heater, it shouldn't cost as much to keep it warm as it does to heat it up. I would use something like PEX that is continues so there would never be a leak, and spread it out over as much area in the attic as I can so it gets as hot as possible. In winter, I would probably have to stop it from being up there because it might freeze, so I would need valves for that, and probably a drain line to get the water out of the line in the attic. Even though PEX is rated to freeze and not break, it seems like a good idea to just not have any water in the line for winter. For what it costs in materials, I think that this is something that might show a return fairly quickly. But again, it's just a thought that I've had without anything to support it. And since I don't know of anybody that has done this, I wonder what am I missing?

I looked into this type of system. Google it and you find some pretty good instructions. Apparently there's a special temp sensing mixing valve you can put on the water heater that regulates how much cold-from-the-well and how much warm-from-the-attic water goes in. Looked like a pretty simple but ingenious system. (Will your attic really freeze?)

 

[TnAndy]

I started with a 2.1kw system in 2008, and expanded it several times to current 11kw. 6kw of it is battery backup, grid tied. I wanted that for some off grid capability should it become needed (it has a few times over the years, power goes out, I flip a transfer switch in the garage, and we keep on 'flipping light switches' ....among other things). I added another 5kw of grid tie only (micro inverter based) to take care of the rest of our bill, so we haven't had an electric bill in 5-6 years, nor will we ever again.

My initial arrays are on trackers I built.....which made sense when panels were $4/watt.....now at less than a dollar a watt, they do not and I ground mounted the last 5kw as a result.

My racking is home made......1.5" galvanized pipe with 2x2x3/16" galvanized angle welded to the pipe.



Here is a 10kw system I built for a neighbor:

2" galvanized pipe set in concrete footer, 3/16" 2x2 angle. 40 250watt panels with microinverters....all grid tie.

Here is a 3kw system I set up for a off grid buddy......no power even close to his place up on top a mountain. (6) 250w panels on one side of the roof (south east), another 6 on southwest side. Along with a 4kw Kubota backup generator, he has all the modern goodies.

2500gal tank to the left is part of his roof rain water collection system, all his water is rain obtained.

 

[GirlWhoWantsTractor]

Very impressive, TnAndy!