2017 2538 Won't Start - yes, another one

[bhammer]

Yet another, won't start thread. 2017 with 96 hours. Key turns relay click but nothing from the starter. Here are the details, what I've tried and the outcome. I'm sure it's a safety switch but I've been unable to find it.*


A couple weeks ago, went to get the tractor for a quick task. It wouldn't start and initially thought battery. It was supposed to rain in a couple hours so I left it and went on about my business. Well, it's rained for the last couple of weeks. Yesterday, before going out of town, I checked a couple things. Since I'm not able to get back to the tractor until Friday, I'm thinking outside the box and would appreciate any assistance from you all.*


I jumpered the battery starter lug to the bendix and it starts right up.* It's not a battery. Two relays under hood check good. Two relays under dash check good. Ignition switch checks good. Brake applied safety switch works. The pto engaged switch also works. Both of these indicate on the dash with a flashing check light, if not in a safe condition.*


There is no butt in seat switch as the dealer bypassed it with a jumper and removed the switch all together. I've unplugged and plugged it back in. Check the two terminals on it for continuity and it's good. I don't know if this should also indicate on the dash with the check light, but plugged in or unplugged, there's no difference. I'll do some more digging here...*


It is an hst and no clutch so no switch there. What other lock out items are there are to check?*


Thinking aloud, I didn't check fluid levels. Is there a sensor that keeps it from starting if axle, hst/pto or oil levels are low?


I could load it on the trailer and take it to the dealer but trying to get away from that if it's an easy fix. Appreciate any suggestions!*

 

[Coyote machine]

Start around the battery. That's what you thought, but you moved away from that after jumping the solenoid to turn the Bendix. Go back to the battery and put a VOM on it and read voltage BEFORE you turn the key, then when you turn the key. Test it on the posts of the battery, NOT the cable clamps. If the battery before turning the key reads 12 or above and drops to next to nothing when the key is turned, then remove the battery cables, negative first and look for corrosion and clean all connections at athe battery and especially at the cable connection at the frame. Move the cables around enough that if there is a problem with the cable internally it may start showing up when you go to try to start it. If the battery seems dead remove it, take it to an auto parts store, after you or they charge it fully, then let it sit, THEN perform a load test and specific gravity tests. If it fails either replace it with fresh stock battery.
Report back results from these tests.

 

[RNeumann]

It’s common to bump the PTO or other lever jumping off the tractor which will trip one of the many safety interlocks.

 

[bhammer]

Start around the battery. That's what you thought, but you moved away from that after jumping the solenoid to turn the Bendix. Go back to the battery and put a VOM on it and read voltage BEFORE you turn the key, then when you turn the key. Test it on the posts of the battery, NOT the cable clamps. If the battery before turning the key reads 12 or above and drops to next to nothing when the key is turned, then remove the battery cables, negative first and look for corrosion and clean all connections at athe battery and especially at the cable connection at the frame. Move the cables around enough that if there is a problem with the cable internally it may start showing up when you go to try to start it. If the battery seems dead remove it, take it to an auto parts store, after you or they charge it fully, then let it sit, THEN perform a load test and specific gravity tests. If it fails either replace it with fresh stock battery.
Report back results from these tests.

Thanks, I did that. IIRC, I had 12.8 no key, and 12.7 with key on and no change at cranking. I'll pull the cables and make sure they are clean and secure. I did that at the 50 hrs. I'll also pull it from starter.

With this said, it's a direct hot from the battery to the starter so if I can start by eliminating the safeties, not sure battery is the problem.

 

[bhammer]

It痴 common to bump the PTO or other lever jumping off the tractor which will trip one of the many safety interlocks.

On these, you can leave the pto lever engaged all the time. There's a push button on the dash to activate it.

 

[RNeumann]

Sorry I don’t know regarding the push button-I have a 1538. But I can tell you I jumped off my tractor one day and had the same experience. I finally called the dealer who laughed and said I probably bumped my PTO lever.....he was right.
We had another guy on here (TBN) pay transport, parts and labor for a new computer (several thousand if I recall correctly) because he and the dealer convinced each other it must have went bad. It turned out to be some type of rear hydraulic safety switch that got bumped.....as stated above HE paid for that one!
I guess the bottom line to my point is- if it worked, you jumped off and now it doesn’t work I’d start with PTO, rear remotes etc. Basically anything with an interlock. Fingers crossed it’s that easy!

BTW- how easy would it be to have an idiot light on the dash tell you an interlock is preventing starting? Probably cost an additional 50¢!

 

[Coyote machine]

Thanks, I did that. IIRC, I had 12.8 no key, and 12.7 with key on and no change at cranking. I'll pull the cables and make sure they are clean and secure. I did that at the 50 hrs. I'll also pull it from starter.

With this said, it's a direct hot from the battery to the starter so if I can start by eliminating the safeties, not sure battery is the problem.

Not saying the battery is the problem, I wanted you to eliminate it and the cables and work forward to find the problem. When you crank the engine, or turn the key to that position the voltage should drop as it is being used to make the starter spin the engine. Since you're NOT seeing a drop in voltage, that indicates there is an 'open' keeping the tractor from starting.
Do you have a electrical schematic for the tractor to follow?

 

[bhammer]

Coyote machine , thanks for the help. I understand where you are coming from. Like you, I'd rather eliminate issues that just assume they are good. I actually have a set of new battery cables from a boat project a couple years ago that I can swap out if needed. I know the OEM battery clamps are pretty wimpy, anyways..... I plan on taking the battery by the auto parts place and having it checked, just to be sure as I have seen 1 year old batteries go bad.

No, I do not have a wiring diagram to work from. Scoured the internet last night and couldn't find one. That open is why I was leaning towards a safety switch but the only 2 that I know of, have checked good and I don't know if the seat safety that has been bypassed would cause the Check light on the dash to flash or not. I am not exactly sure which relay is the one used, either. The 4 that I have checked, have checked good and am unsure though if one of those is the starter relay.

 

[bhammer]

Sorry I don’t know regarding the push button-I have a 1538. But I can tell you I jumped off my tractor one day and had the same experience. I finally called the dealer who laughed and said I probably bumped my PTO lever.....he was right.
We had another guy on here (TBN) pay transport, parts and labor for a new computer (several thousand if I recall correctly) because he and the dealer convinced each other it must have went bad. It turned out to be some type of rear hydraulic safety switch that got bumped.....as stated above HE paid for that one!
I guess the bottom line to my point is- if it worked, you jumped off and now it doesn’t work I’d start with PTO, rear remotes etc. Basically anything with an interlock. Fingers crossed it’s that easy!

BTW- how easy would it be to have an idiot light on the dash tell you an interlock is preventing starting? Probably cost an additional 50¢!

Oh, I plan to double check the pto lever and put it on off, just to be sure. When I was under the tractor looking, I was unable to locate a switch but I didn't look very hard, either. I had convinced myself that it couldn't be that because that lever hasn't been moved from PTO on since buying the tractor.

I agree, a little more intelligence to the lockout system would be great.

 

[RNeumann]

Oh, I plan to double check the pto lever and put it on off, just to be sure. When I was under the tractor looking, I was unable to locate a switch but I didn't look very hard, either. I had convinced myself that it couldn't be that because that lever hasn't been moved from PTO on since buying the tractor.

I agree, a little more intelligence to the lockout system would be great.

I’ve never used the PTO or engaged it either. Dealer says a jacket or something just has to bump it an inch or so and the machine won’t start.