Removal of Asbestos siding

/ Removal of Asbestos siding #41  
A little off tangent here, but where I live, there is a creek about a mile away that runs parallel to the road I live on and empties into a big river. There is a very poor area along that creek that had some of the kids that live there start getting sick. It was just a few at first, but then the lawyers showed up and all of a sudden there was dozens of them, and even people that had just visited there said that they where sick too. I forget what the illness was, but it was environmentally related, or at least the lawsuit claimed it was.

There was a big company that owned about 500 acres upstream from that community that they blamed for contaminating the water. This made the news and it became kind of a circus. More people claiming to be sick and everyone pointing fingers at that business. The odd thing is that the business had not been in operation for a couple of years and the land had just been bought by another corporation that had just had the EPA approve their permits and licensing to start the business back up again.

When it ended, the law firm made a few million and the sick and so called sick ended up with almost nothing. They had to share a settlement amount that didn't amount to very much when everyone got their share. There might of actually been a few sick kids that could have used the money, but from what I've been told, they didn't live very long.

I was able to buy some land from them after all this happened when I moved here. Nobody wanted any of it, and they where getting rid of it for cheap.

I also learned by talking to a lot of people in the area that the real problem was an old leather tannery that used to be in operation a few miles up stream that was a toxic dump, but it has been out of business and closed down for decades. They felt that if there really was a problem, that it came from the chemicals used to tan cow hides back in the 50's until it closed down in the 80's. There is no money suing a non existent company, so the lawyers went after the big money and created a case based on hiring experts that manipulated the data to reflect what they wanted it to.

The person who worked for the company that I bought the land from told me that it was cheaper for them to settle when they did before it went national, and it would have cost them a lot more money. Just a math thing for them to pay a small amount and have it go away then drag it out and risk paying a lot more.

I don't know if this is similar to the asbestos lawsuits, but I do believe it is exactly how the black mold issue came about. When I see law firms on TV asking if you have ever been sick with whatever it is that they are looking for victims to sue over, I think about that too.

And to really wonder off course, a buddy back in CA was part of a big lawsuit against one of the bigger banks there. When it was all said and done, his portion of the settlement was about a thousand dollars. He was excited about this free money, but then found out that they where paying it out quarterly in a very small amount, and that it would take 30 years to receive the full amount. The lawyers where paid their full amount right away.

I'm not saying that asbestos isn't bad for you, but I do believe that lawyers and lawsuits have made it out to sound a lot worse then it really is. Same with lead in paint.
Being on a former industrial site I'm sure you test your well frequently. My dad lived near a former army ammunition plant. He died of colon cancer at age 58. There was an unusual spike in premature cancer deaths in the area at/around the same time, all people on private wells.
 
/ Removal of Asbestos siding #42  
Second hand smoke is another myth. Annoying? Yes. Harmful? No.
Have you seen the scum that ends up on the dash and embedded in every surface of a smokers car (or inside their computer)? Do you really think that is safe to breath?

Aaron Z
 
/ Removal of Asbestos siding #43  
Have you seen the scum that ends up on the dash and embedded in every surface of a smokers car (or inside their computer)? Do you really think that is safe to breath?

Aaron Z
It's scum. It's annoying. But the "science" behind second hand smoke has been manipulated towards reaching a predetermined conclusion (as is so much other "science" lately).
 
/ Removal of Asbestos siding #44  
The house my dad built in the late 50's used a lot of cemesto Cemesto - Wikipedia panels in its construction. There was a lot left over in our carport by the time I was 8-10 years old in the late 60's. We used to cut it up with a circular saw and make forts in the woods. We cut it in the carport, so I'm sure I was exposed to the dust. Also, we used a lot of vermiculite insulation in our attic, and my mom potted a lot of plants. We always had a couple bags of vermiculite around. 80% of the vermiculite sold in the world at that time came from the mine in Libby, Montana. It was discovered that the vermiculite from that mine contained asbestos. Libby has a population of about 3000. About 1200 people in the town have some sort of asbestos related illness, and about 10% of the population of Libby has died from asbestosis.

Vermiculite - Wikipedia

So I think asbestos is a real hazard when it's disturbed and floating around and inhaled. But I also think, as I said before, that if you're careful, follow common sense established practices, and wear proper personal protective equipment, you can remove things like siding, floor tiles, etc... safely, yourself.
 
/ Removal of Asbestos siding #45  
^^ Not by taking off a few shingles over a couple of days outside.

Reminds me of a neighbor----

He would burn 5 or 6 vinyle asbestos shingles every day and when I reproached him he said that at 5-6 he was not polluting.
I commented that 5-6/day for 30 days was exactly the same amount of pollution as burning all in the same day as the particles still ended in the atmosphere.
But the he was the sort that knew it all and did not believe in regulations, never listened to any advice.

His septic system is his own design, his house the same (nothing meets actual codes as he knows better).
Unfortunately he was on the city counsel so they don't bother him.
His DIY garage design (city approved) has a roof line that sags like a swayback old mare. He knew how!

Needles to say we don't socialise.
 
/ Removal of Asbestos siding
  • Thread Starter
#46  
Reminds me of a neighbor----

He would burn 5 or 6 vinyle asbestos shingles every day and when I reproached him he said that at 5-6 he was not polluting.
I commented that 5-6/day for 30 days was exactly the same amount of pollution as burning all in the same day as the particles still ended in the atmosphere.
But the he was the sort that knew it all and did not believe in regulations, never listened to any advice.

His septic system is his own design, his house the same (nothing meets actual codes as he knows better).
Unfortunately he was on the city counsel so they don't bother him.
His DIY garage design (city approved) has a roof line that sags like a swayback old mare. He knew how!

Needles to say we don't socialise.

I know the type. With him being in city government I bet he uses his position to try to get people to do it his way too. Nothing worse than ignorant people in a position of power.
 
/ Removal of Asbestos siding #47  
I knew someone that was diagnosed with mesothelioma, he lasted almost 2 years. It was a pretty horrible way to go. He worked at Alcoa for most his adult life where they used a large amount of asbestos.

I have no idea about how much asbestos i've been exposed to over the years.
 
/ Removal of Asbestos siding #48  
Quote Originally Posted by EddieWalker View Post
A little off tangent here, but where I live, there is a creek about a mile away that runs parallel to the road I live on and empties into a big river. There is a very poor area along that creek that had some of the kids that live there start getting sick. It was just a few at first, but then the lawyers showed up and all of a sudden there was dozens of them, and even people that had just visited there said that they where sick too. I forget what the illness was, but it was environmentally related, or at least the lawsuit claimed it was.

There was a big company that owned about 500 acres upstream from that community that they blamed for contaminating the water. This made the news and it became kind of a circus. More people claiming to be sick and everyone pointing fingers at that business. The odd thing is that the business had not been in operation for a couple of years and the land had just been bought by another corporation that had just had the EPA approve their permits and licensing to start the business back up again.

When it ended, the law firm made a few million and the sick and so called sick ended up with almost nothing. They had to share a settlement amount that didn't amount to very much when everyone got their share. There might of actually been a few sick kids that could have used the money, but from what I've been told, they didn't live very long.

I was able to buy some land from them after all this happened when I moved here. Nobody wanted any of it, and they where getting rid of it for cheap.

I also learned by talking to a lot of people in the area that the real problem was an old leather tannery that used to be in operation a few miles up stream that was a toxic dump, but it has been out of business and closed down for decades. They felt that if there really was a problem, that it came from the chemicals used to tan cow hides back in the 50's until it closed down in the 80's. There is no money suing a non existent company, so the lawyers went after the big money and created a case based on hiring experts that manipulated the data to reflect what they wanted it to.

The person who worked for the company that I bought the land from told me that it was cheaper for them to settle when they did before it went national, and it would have cost them a lot more money. Just a math thing for them to pay a small amount and have it go away then drag it out and risk paying a lot more.

I don't know if this is similar to the asbestos lawsuits, but I do believe it is exactly how the black mold issue came about. When I see law firms on TV asking if you have ever been sick with whatever it is that they are looking for victims to sue over, I think about that too.

And to really wonder off course, a buddy back in CA was part of a big lawsuit against one of the bigger banks there. When it was all said and done, his portion of the settlement was about a thousand dollars. He was excited about this free money, but then found out that they where paying it out quarterly in a very small amount, and that it would take 30 years to receive the full amount. The lawyers where paid their full amount right away.


----------------------------------

That is common in all those lawsuits involving lots of people, the ones promoted on TV. For a really good look at the scam, read "The King of Torts" by John Grisham.

Wife suckered into one of them, final settlement was less than a $100. We spent more than that on gas in the required travel for testing, taking of testimony, etc.
 
/ Removal of Asbestos siding #49  
Quote Originally Posted by EddieWalker View Post
A little off tangent here, but where I live, there is a creek about a mile away that runs parallel to the road I live on and empties into a big river. There is a very poor area along that creek that had some of the kids that live there start getting sick. It was just a few at first, but then the lawyers showed up and all of a sudden there was dozens of them, and even people that had just visited there said that they where sick too. I forget what the illness was, but it was environmentally related, or at least the lawsuit claimed it was.

There was a big company that owned about 500 acres upstream from that community that they blamed for contaminating the water. This made the news and it became kind of a circus. More people claiming to be sick and everyone pointing fingers at that business. The odd thing is that the business had not been in operation for a couple of years and the land had just been bought by another corporation that had just had the EPA approve their permits and licensing to start the business back up again.

When it ended, the law firm made a few million and the sick and so called sick ended up with almost nothing. They had to share a settlement amount that didn't amount to very much when everyone got their share. There might of actually been a few sick kids that could have used the money, but from what I've been told, they didn't live very long.

I was able to buy some land from them after all this happened when I moved here. Nobody wanted any of it, and they where getting rid of it for cheap.

I also learned by talking to a lot of people in the area that the real problem was an old leather tannery that used to be in operation a few miles up stream that was a toxic dump, but it has been out of business and closed down for decades. They felt that if there really was a problem, that it came from the chemicals used to tan cow hides back in the 50's until it closed down in the 80's. There is no money suing a non existent company, so the lawyers went after the big money and created a case based on hiring experts that manipulated the data to reflect what they wanted it to.

The person who worked for the company that I bought the land from told me that it was cheaper for them to settle when they did before it went national, and it would have cost them a lot more money. Just a math thing for them to pay a small amount and have it go away then drag it out and risk paying a lot more.

I don't know if this is similar to the asbestos lawsuits, but I do believe it is exactly how the black mold issue came about. When I see law firms on TV asking if you have ever been sick with whatever it is that they are looking for victims to sue over, I think about that too.

And to really wonder off course, a buddy back in CA was part of a big lawsuit against one of the bigger banks there. When it was all said and done, his portion of the settlement was about a thousand dollars. He was excited about this free money, but then found out that they where paying it out quarterly in a very small amount, and that it would take 30 years to receive the full amount. The lawyers where paid their full amount right away.


----------------------------------

That is common in all those lawsuits involving lots of people, the ones promoted on TV. For a really good look at the scam, read "The King of Torts" by John Grisham.

Wife suckered into one of them, final settlement was less than a $100. We spent more than that on gas in the required travel for testing, taking of testimony, etc.

I have a few $$$ in the stock market and a lot of our mail involves security lawsuits. I'll add that I worked for a company involved in the "tobacco wars" (which was the subject of the book you mentioned) so I accumulated more than a few lawyer jokes (difference between a dead skunk on the road vs. a dead lawyer...skid marks by the skunk...I have more). The profession is full of bottom feeders...they even had to change the name of their association a few years ago to make it look like they were "social justice warriors" rather than trying to make their yacht payments.
 
/ Removal of Asbestos siding #50  
I have a few $$$ in the stock market and a lot of our mail involves security lawsuits. I'll add that I worked for a company involved in the "tobacco wars" (which was the subject of the book you mentioned) so I accumulated more than a few lawyer jokes (difference between a dead skunk on the road vs. a dead lawyer...skid marks by the skunk...I have more). The profession is full of bottom feeders...they even had to change the name of their association a few years ago to make it look like they were "social justice warriors" rather than trying to make their yacht payments.

I was licensed to practice law for 25 or so years; I'll admit I met some pretty shady characters, but I also had the privilege of knowing some of the most admirable and honest individuals who also happened to be lawyers. The sleeze bags I met were sleeze bags long before they were lawyers.
 
/ Removal of Asbestos siding #51  
I was licensed to practice law for 25 or so years; I'll admit I met some pretty shady characters, but I also had the privilege of knowing some of the most admirable and honest individuals who also happened to be lawyers. The sleeze bags I met were sleeze bags long before they were lawyers.

Kinda like politicians maybe? I recall those in my high school years that for some reason aspired to be politicians. Born that way I guess. I had 3 separate jobs when I was in high school, they had none. Go figure. But your point about decent people in the profession, I agree. Just wrote a check for services to get our estate planning reviewed/tuned and I would recommend him to anybody. Btw, I at one time was a CPA (stopped paying for the license because I had no intention of ever returning to a line of work where it was required). I worked with a few sleeze bags there also.
 
/ Removal of Asbestos siding #52  
A lot of coal miners died from black lung, but they dont make you bag coal to get rid of it.
 
/ Removal of Asbestos siding
  • Thread Starter
#54  
What some do not seem to be aware of is the federal EPA laws and regulations regarding asbestos...

Scroll down to the link for "Standard for waste disposal..."

Asbestos Laws and Regulations | Asbestos | US EPA

If you followed the post from the beginning (wouldn't blame you if you didn't) you will see that it is perfectly legal to dispose of asbestos individually. It is not regulated in this state and many others provided it is a single family residence. The landfill has no restrictions on the disposal. I posted the regulations here already and have spoken to the DEQ as well.

Those in the profession say it really is no big deal.
 
/ Removal of Asbestos siding #55  
If you followed the post from the beginning (wouldn't blame you if you didn't) you will see that it is perfectly legal to dispose of asbestos individually. It is not regulated in this state and many others provided it is a single family residence. The landfill has no restrictions on the disposal. I posted the regulations here already and have spoken to the DEQ as well.

Those in the profession say it really is no big deal.

That is why the "Supremacy Clause" was added to the constitution of the USA...If they wish it to the federal laws can supersede any state or local laws...
 
/ Removal of Asbestos siding #56  
It's being tested in California on a Daily basis and to my surprise it does seem the Federal Government often backs down or simply loses interest

Many of the SF Bay Area politicians and some aspiring to be Governor have repeatedly and publicly stated what Federal Laws apply and which are to be ignored... and by ignore... it could mean losing your employment should you as say a Police Officer attempt to enforce Federal Law over local law...

Gay marriage, Sanctuary Cities, Drug Laws, Emission Requirements, Corp Average Fuel, etc...

I am always fascinated at how the pendulum swings...
 
/ Removal of Asbestos siding
  • Thread Starter
#57  
That is why the "Supremacy Clause" was added to the constitution of the USA...If they wish it to the federal laws can supersede any state or local laws...

Are you saying that that Federal Law requires a professional to remove asbestos? The link you posted has to do with schools and public buildings and worker rules. If I missed something please let me know. Thanks,
 
/ Removal of Asbestos siding #58  
Remember a lot of Federal law is OSHA...

If you are doing the work for yourself without employees... many rules don't apply.

It is this way without a lot of things... and being in business is another one.

A CDL has to follow strict rules that govern drive time that are not applicable to a person hauling his pleasure horses cross country.
 
/ Removal of Asbestos siding #59  
Are you saying that that Federal Law requires a professional to remove asbestos? The link you posted has to do with schools and public buildings and worker rules. If I missed something please let me know. Thanks,
If the federal regulations are what a state or local authority adopts yes...if they have their own regulations or choose not to enforce any (state or federal) regs. NO...BUT if they for some reason wanted to the feds could enforce any of their laws etc. regardless of state or local laws

Schools etc. were just part of the regulations...
 
/ Removal of Asbestos siding #60  
If the federal regulations are what a state or local authority adopts yes...if they have their own regulations or choose not to enforce any (state or federal) regs. NO...BUT if they for some reason wanted to the feds could enforce any of their laws etc. regardless of state or local laws

Schools etc. were just part of the regulations...
Sort of like the enforcement of our Federal laws concerning marijuana and foreigners who cross into our country illegally. :confused3:
 

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