Newbie needs tractor advice.

[Diggin It]

You mentioned the ground is very hard. I don't have experience with PHDs, but from the threads here, it's been said they can easily get stuck, screwing themselves into the ground in ways that it becomes extremely difficult to get them back out. My ground is basically densely packed red rock gravel. While digging a county water line a few years back, a full size trackhoe had a lot of trouble digging across my lot. They almost stood the thing up on the nose more than once. And they were only going 3-4 feet in most areas, 5-6 in a few.

With my little BH, I was able to dig out a few three stumps last fall while that same ground was still hard, but it took me quite a while to do each one.

I think you may be vastly underestimating the task of drilling those holes.

 

[Bludrok]

You mentioned the ground is very hard. I don't have experience with PHDs, but from the threads here, it's been said they can easily get stuck, screwing themselves into the ground in ways that it becomes extremely difficult to get them back out. My ground is basically densely packed red rock gravel. While digging a county water line a few years back, a full size trackhoe had a lot of trouble digging across my lot. They almost stood the thing up on the nose more than once. And they were only going 3-4 feet in most areas, 5-6 in a few.

With my little BH, I was able to dig out a few three stumps last fall while that same ground was still hard, but it took me quite a while to do each one.

I think you may be vastly underestimating the task of drilling those holes.

Possibly. But that is why I will only do it in the spring, when my property is basically a swamp. If I discover it is too much, then I will just use smaller holes, and more of them. I would only be out the cost of the 36" Auger, which I can sell.

Edit - I also wanted to add that I have clay soil, no rocks or anything near as hard as what you were dealing with.

 

[Jchonline]

Bludrok,

No offense taken! You of course know for everything but farming, the tractor is a machine of compromises. Hydraulic packs to me are too big of a compromise. Few I have seen on these forums use them, but maybe you can find some with good experiences. Another motor to break, a bunch of extra hoses to get caught on things, plumbing for remote valves in addition to those on the tractor, still only getting 20 ish gpm with the pack. If you need the flow, then get a machine that has the flow outright...at least that is my opinion.

 

[Jchonline]

Possibly. But that is why I will only do it in the spring, when my property is basically a swamp. If I discover it is too much, then I will just use smaller holes, and more of them. I would only be out the cost of the 36" Auger, which I can sell.

Edit - I also wanted to add that I have clay soil, no rocks or anything near as hard as what you were dealing with.

Implements are usually sold at a significant loss based on my experience.

if you are digging down 25', once you start adding extensions how are you getting the turned dirt out of the hole? Will the auger still even turn with 15' of soil weighing it down?

 

[GSVette]

I have the XR4155HC and spin an older JD hydraulic 3 point auger w/ a 12” and 9” diameter drills.

My experience thus far is that the hydraulic flow at the rear remotes is adequate but the 12” cutter is probably the largest I would spin. The lack of significant downforce also limits me a bit but I wouldn’t have anything other than a hydraulic auger ( if only because I can reverse it).

To your dilemma-with the size auger you’re wanting to spin combined with the depth you want to dig, I completely understand your need for a power pack. I have spun that size auger using a skid steer in digging the post holes for my pole barn. It made me really appreciate the flow requirements but also the forces applied by that size auger to the skid steer itself. I’d be a bit concerned with those forces being applied to the loader arms on my LS plus I can only imagine how much a 36” auger would throw my tractor about.

Good luck-sounds like an interesting challenge.

 

[Bludrok]

Bludrok,

No offense taken! You of course know for everything but farming, the tractor is a machine of compromises. Hydraulic packs to me are too big of a compromise. Few I have seen on these forums use them, but maybe you can find some with good experiences. Another motor to break, a bunch of extra hoses to get caught on things, plumbing for remote valves in addition to those on the tractor, still only getting 20 ish gpm with the pack. If you need the flow, then get a machine that has the flow outright...at least that is my opinion.

Is there a tractor that meets those requirements? The only thing I found is in the 100HP class, which is a lot more machine than I need.

Implements are usually sold at a significant loss based on my experience.

if you are digging down 25', once you start adding extensions how are you getting the turned dirt out of the hole? Will the auger still even turn with 15' of soil weighing it down?

I won't ever have 15' of dirt on the auger. The auger I would use has a 4' flight, so you dig 3' down and then lift the auger all the way to the top and clear the dirt and go again for another 3'.

Once you get too deep for the loader arms to lift it in one pass, you use the small bracket I was saying I would weld to each extension. What you do is lift the auger as much as you can, put an iron bar through the welded bracket and let the iron bar hold up the auger. Then remove the extensions above that point and reattach. Rinse and repeat until you are all the way at the top and can clear the dirt.

Using this method, the 25' deep hole is dug just like you were only digging a 3' hole, just a longer and more tedious process.

I have the XR4155HC and spin an older JD hydraulic 3 point auger w/ a 12 and 9 diameter drills.

My experience thus far is that the hydraulic flow at the rear remotes is adequate but the 12 cutter is probably the largest I would spin. The lack of significant downforce also limits me a bit but I wouldn稚 have anything other than a hydraulic auger ( if only because I can reverse it).

To your dilemma-with the size auger you?*e wanting to spin combined with the depth you want to dig, I completely understand your need for a power pack. I have spun that size auger using a skid steer in digging the post holes for my pole barn. It made me really appreciate the flow requirements but also the forces applied by that size auger to the skid steer itself. I壇 be a bit concerned with those forces being applied to the loader arms on my LS plus I can only imagine how much a 36 auger would throw my tractor about.

Good luck-sounds like an interesting challenge.

Definitely something to watch out for. Thanks for the advice.

 

[Jchonline]

Blue, no I havent seen one. There is a reason...People that need hydraulic flow just go to SS. My construction grade TLB (63HP) has 16 gpm out the front for implements. That may still not be enough for your auger. I wonder if you can rent a power pack? I hate renting and using other peoples fluids in my machine but sometimes you dont have a choice.

Listen I am not arguing, you can of course do whatever you wish with your money. Your best decision will come from taking in all of the information you can, then deciding based on your situation.

 

[Diggin It]

I won't ever have 15' of dirt on the auger. The auger I would use has a 4' flight, so you dig 3' down and then lift the auger all the way to the top and clear the dirt and go again for another 3'.

Once you get too deep for the loader arms to lift it in one pass, you use the small bracket I was saying I would weld to each extension. What you do is lift the auger as much as you can, put an iron bar through the welded bracket and let the iron bar hold up the auger. Then remove the extensions above that point and reattach. Rinse and repeat until you are all the way at the top and can clear the dirt.

Using this method, the 25' deep hole is dug just like you were only digging a 3' hole, just a longer and more tedious process.

So, you're planning on assembling and disassembling multiple sections of auger shaft several times for each hole? And lifting the entire assembly into and out of each hole several times?

Again, I've never used any PHD at all, but doesn't each extension add stress and reduce capability somewhat? How would you break it loose if it got stuck at 20'?

I try to do most everything by myself, I still think I'd hire a well driller rig. There are some things I just don't think I'd be willing to try without experience.

 

[TheMadOne]

Blue, no I havent seen one. There is a reason...People that need hydraulic flow just go to SS. My construction grade TLB (63HP) has 16 gpm out the front for implements. That may still not be enough for your auger. I wonder if you can rent a power pack? I hate renting and using other peoples fluids in my machine but sometimes you dont have a choice.

Listen I am not arguing, you can of course do whatever you wish with your money. Your best decision will come from taking in all of the information you can, then deciding based on your situation.

I agree with this. At the end of the day it's your money, but I, and several others, don't think a tractor is the correct tool for the job with those holes. I also worry about hanging the auger so far down from the loader. That's a lot of torque and a long lever.

 

[Bludrok]

So, you're planning on assembling and disassembling multiple sections of auger shaft several times for each hole? And lifting the entire assembly into and out of each hole several times?

Again, I've never used any PHD at all, but doesn't each extension add stress and reduce capability somewhat? How would you break it loose if it got stuck at 20'?

I try to do most everything by myself, I still think I'd hire a well driller rig. There are some things I just don't think I'd be willing to try without experience.

Yes, for each hole I would have to assemble and disassemble several times, which is why I said I am planning on 1 hole taking half a day. Probably longer for the first one, because I will take everything nice and slow to make sure nothing goes wrong.

I am not an engineer, but I do agree that each extension would add some stress and slightly reduce capability. If it gets stuck, the McMillan Auger that I am looking at can rotate backwards to back it out of the hole.

I have roughly 3000' of fencing that I will be installing within the next 3 years so even if I discover the machine cant do the dry wells I am looking at, I would only be out the cost of the 36" Auger Bit, so I am at least going to give it a shot.