Buying Advice Backhoe on a SCUT - yea or nay?

[djefferis]

So I知 looking at a few different models, Deere 1023 and Massey GC1720 are the front runners. Kubota just isn稚 as well supported locally so that痴 why they are in 3rd place right now.

My question is simple, is a backhoe worth the cost? Made it many years without one - but looks like it might be useful. Of course now is time to get one if purchasing with tractor as a package.

Can get a 1023 TLB for 18500 new, feels like a good deal to me. Upgrade to 1025 is 1500 more, just seems like a lot of creature comforts for 1500. Massey is a nice unit as well, but price wise in line with Deere. Should I spring for it - or is it going to be a paperweight sitting in the garage? Also, how hard are these to take off/put on

 

[Diggin It]

There is no right or wrong answer. It's an individual decision based on your current and anticipated future needs. I've used mine quite a bit in a few months. I'd have used it a lot more by now if the muds hadn't set in for months.

I can get mine off in ten minutes or less. Getting it back on takes a bit longer due to getting it lined up right with limited visibility of the connecting points.

My total including a 60" MMM and 4' tiller was less than the number you posted.

 

[sea2summit]

Can't speak to the JD and Massey but the Kubota takes maybe 15 min for the BX, I'm faster with my MX at probably less than 10 min.

It does often sit for long periods of time but boy it doesn't take many jobs for me to consider it money well spent, I have no regrets plunking down the extra dollhairs to make it part of the purchase.

 

[TheMadOne]

My take on things is this, take a look around at jobs you have to do. If you don't currently have the work to cover...I'd say at least 50% of the price of the backhoe in rental fees, then you probably don't need a backhoe. If you don't have 25% of the work, then you don't need a backhoe. You'll never make your money back on having it vs. renting.

However, want and need are not the same, and it's not my wallet. I could not/cannot justify the cost to myself, but I'm not you or in your situation.

As far as upgrading to a higher end machine, that's again personal. I bought the largest economy machine I could afford. I think I would have been happier with a slightly smaller unit with better ergos. Since you're shopping the 1025r, check out tractortimewithtim on youtube. He does a lot with just a 1025r, and the right attachments.

 

[Diggin It]

The buy vs. rent thing comes up on every one of these threads, but is usually irrelevant unless you have a rental place within a mile that always has one available the moment you need it and have the trailer to move it your self.

 

[TheMadOne]

The buy vs. rent thing comes up on every one of these threads, but is usually irrelevant unless you have a rental place within a mile that always has one available the moment you need it and have the trailer to move it your self.

Like I said, need vs want. If he has a need to have a backhoe on call 24/7/365, then he wouldn't be debating if he should spend the money. However, wanting that same convenience? That's possible, and only he's able to decide if it works for him financially.

We've had posters that swear anything bigger than a SCUT is pointless unless you're actually a farmer, posters that claim anything under a 2 ton tractor is a toy, posters who claim the only good TLB is a commercial one, posters who've done amazing things with subcompact TLBs, etc. OP has to make their own choices, informed by their own situation, not mine or yours.

 

[LS Tractor Owner]

"OP has to make their own choices, informed by their own situation, not mine or yours." ....quote

Absolutely correct. There are some folks that could constantly use a BH, others occasionally. As previously stated, evaluate what projects you need to do or might have to do in the future. In MY situation, the option of contracting out my projects (just one of them) paid for the BH. Renting equipment out where I live is exceptionally costly, + the delivery fees, + being on THEIR time frame. Even then it would have been more that half of the BH cost.

For resale out here, the BH would be a necessary attachment for me to even sell it. This is not the case everywhere though.

You are correct about purchasing it when you get the tractor, the cost was substantially less than buying it afterwards. I personally made the mistake of not getting the MMM in the initial purchase for $1000, only to find purchasing it about 4 months later would cost me $2500.

My LS MT125 TLB cost $2500 less than your JD quote, the LS line might be worth looking into.

 

[djefferis]

I understand its a personal decision, not the purpose of this thread to have anyone here "tell me what to do" - only gather opinions of those who were in similar situations and what you did and how you felt after. Did you buy and regret 6 months a year down the road, or think I am glad I did this. Sea2Summit got where I was going at least. Thanks for the opinion...that is what I was looking for.

Renting is not really an option, at least financially locally. Yes, I could have someone haul one out 100 miles I suppose, but then again by the time I pay for transport and a weeks rent - its going to change the scales quickly. Renting they also want paid up front - no 0% over 60-72 month option on the rent.

Saying plan the jobs I would rent for is really tough, sometimes the jobs are not "planned" things - no one plants on a water line break for example. Only know if it does, then its either call the guy to dig it up or plan on doing quite a bit of manual labor now. I also think there are several jobs that I could create for myself that otherwise would not be addressed -i/e adding a bit of drainage around the basement wall to correct some of the seepage issues.

Also like the comment on resale - not that I am buying to resell later (obviously a stupid move, buying new and thinking you can recoup 100% or even profit short term). I do feel having something different and better featured would help if I needed to upgrade later. Talking with the dealer on trade they mentioned it would be hard to sell a unit I was thinking of selling because it has no loader. Never an issue to me, always had a loader on another unit - but no loader makes things a tough sale. Having the complete package might make things simpler to resell if the time comes. Also thinking with the Deere at least - if I move up to the 2 series later, then I can carry that implement over to the new purchase (at least based on the current specs).

I am still torn on the 1023 v 1025. There are about 2 features on the 1025 I find "useful" to me, tilt steering and more HP. Extra lights, rubber vs plastic floor mats, more comfortable seat and the set leveling feature are just not worth it to me personally. I can change seat and mats, add better lights in more useful spots. I think I will check a few different deere dealers as some seem to push the 1025 harder and are better positioned on the price difference. Some, like the one I visited seem to use the 1023 as a "get them in the door price" and then rely on more horsepower is better logic to take hold and allow people to gravitate to the 1025. Again, I agree more is better in the same size package almost always - but at some point its a small tractor and theres enough to do 100% of what you could reasonably expect to do with the unit and anything more is simply excess power.

I'll look at LS - but off hand could not name the dealer who sells them locally. This would hurt them in my mind, as little support or a name dealer backing kills you at resale. I do not think Deere or Kubota make a superior machine to everything - only that their yearly ad budget ensures those names are in any buyers mind.

 

[TheMadOne]

Does anyone know if the 1023e has an aluminum rear or the 1025r have a steel one?

Aluminum rears are on the 2e and 3e line, with the 2r and 3r being steel, if I remember correctly. That would very much make my decision for me. Aluminum is not what I'd want to be pulling on with any ground engaging implement. Even on a one series.

Also the ergo upgrades don't sound like a big deal, until you've spent hours on a tractor without them.

I think you also get position control on the 1025r.

As far as what OP said about backhoes, it's starting to sound more like a need situation, if you can't rent one within 100 miles then you need to be self sufficient or have a plan b.

 

[Gary Fowler]

Good question about the aluminum rear axles. I wouldn't put a backhoe on a tractor with aluminum rear axles. Look for a model that is all cast steel.
As for whether or not to buy a backhoe, you cant decide based only on cost vs renting especially if you are a long distance from a rental place. I had a lot of work needing to be done that I never did because I didn't have a backhoe. After I bought my B26, I have put close to 600 hours on it, all using the FEL/backhoe. The backhoe has never been off the tractor since I loaded it on my trailer. The previous owner showed me how to take it off and put it back on before I loaded it (about 5 minutes each) but since then it sets in the shed till I need it .

I highly recommend the Kubota B 26 if you can swing it. I found mine at a good used price of $20K with only 68 hours on the meter and it came with the 3 PH and 2 buckets. I likely wouldn't have a B26 if I had to buy new due to the extremely high price but bargains can be had if you look at slightly used ones.
It is small (same size as the B2650) so it is very maneuverable but much stronger than a typical B model Kubota with added backhoe since the B26 is a TLB not just a tractor with added backhoe. Compare the specs between any similar sized tractor with backhoe and the B26 and you will want one for sure.
I just finished a job for my neighbor rebuilding about 200 feet of a washed out road and relocating a 14" concrete culvert that took me most of 2 days. The road consisted of 2-6" diameter rocks and hard clay which I doubt that a SCUT would have handled nor the 4 foot sections of concrete culvert that I had to lift and reposition with the backhoe by using the hydraulic thumb. That is another thing I would highly recommend that you get on your backhoe.