M59 steering loss

[Russo52805]

This past weekend we had the time out at the land to pull the steering ram out of the tractor. When disassembling the center seal was completely trashed (multiple pieces fell out). Brought the ram home and rebuilt and hopefully will have time next weekend to go out and reinstall. After not have the tractor for a month would be nice to have back in service. Thanks y'all for the input. Wes

 

[rScotty]

Well that's interesting Russo. It sounds like you found it. I'm glad you used your common sense and not any of our advice..., cause we were all wrong!
But that still leaves me curious what led you to suspect the steering ram. It seems like an easy and obvious place to look in hindsight, but nobody suggested it. For my part, I figured that the ram was doing its job when you reported that the steering was normal if you used the loader bucket to lift the front end off the ground. To me that left insufficient pressure as the most probable culprit, But now I can see how it could also be the steering ram cylinder having not enough internal seaing.

I guess I should say that we would have gotten there eventually with a pressure gauge once we found that we had good pressure at the front, it would have had to be either the ram or the steering controller's bypass valve and those are then easily checked with a simple crank of the wheel to lock. But what led you right to the steering ram? Or was it just the easiest thing to get to? Or luck? I don't think I've ever even looked at the steering ram on mine. You can bet I'll eyeball it today.

Hmmm..... I just went back through the Kubota M59 Workshop manual and re-read the section on steering. Kubota doesn't mention any tests specifically for the steering ram, and their steering trouble shooting diagnosis page doesn't even mention the steering ram. But of course their lack doesn't excuse my own.

Well, OK,,,,, the good news is that a steering cylinder rebuild is straightforward and probably the easiest thing it could have been. Do you have any idea what caused the center seal to go bad? Steering ram cylinders are pretty common, and I've rebuilt a number of leaky ones, but haven't seen any I recall with an internal seal go completely bad.

Thanks, and please do keep posting as you fix it.
rScotty

 

[Russo52805]

Well that's interesting Russo. It sounds like you found it. I'm glad you used your common sense and not any of our advice..., cause we were all wrong!
But that still leaves me curious what led you to suspect the steering ram. It seems like an easy and obvious place to look in hindsight, but nobody suggested it. For my part, I figured that the ram was doing its job when you reported that the steering was normal if you used the loader bucket to lift the front end off the ground. To me that left insufficient pressure as the most probable culprit, But now I can see how it could also be the steering ram cylinder having not enough internal seaing.

I guess I should say that we would have gotten there eventually with a pressure gauge once we found that we had good pressure at the front, it would have had to be either the ram or the steering controller's bypass valve and those are then easily checked with a simple crank of the wheel to lock. But what led you right to the steering ram? Or was it just the easiest thing to get to? Or luck? I don't think I've ever even looked at the steering ram on mine. You can bet I'll eyeball it today.

Hmmm..... I just went back through the Kubota M59 Workshop manual and re-read the section on steering. Kubota doesn't mention any tests specifically for the steering ram, and their steering trouble shooting diagnosis page doesn't even mention the steering ram. But of course their lack doesn't excuse my own.

Well, OK,,,,, the good news is that a steering cylinder rebuild is straightforward and probably the easiest thing it could have been. Do you have any idea what caused the center seal to go bad? Steering ram cylinders are pretty common, and I've rebuilt a number of leaky ones, but haven't seen any I recall with an internal seal go completely bad.

Thanks, and please do keep posting as you fix it.
rScotty

I wasn't having any luck getting the pieces I needed to to adapt a pressure gauge in the rule area we are located in so with that someone on orange talk forum had mentioned it will the gave a list of possible causes. When you could get it to go to lock it would hold. When we disconnected the hoses and turned the wheel with the tractor off it would pump fluid one way or the other so it should have been turning the wheels when connected but would not. So figured the problem to be in the ram. Also with many years of turning a wrench I've found the most manufactures tend to be vague on areas of less expensive repairs so that more money can be made on diagnostic time. Also never been afaid to tear something apart. I figured if everything check good I was only out $150 for the seal kit and at that point I know the ram was in good condition. My only guess as to why it went bad is the heavy rental use it got before we bought the machine.

 

[rScotty]

I wasn't having any luck getting the pieces I needed to to adapt a pressure gauge in the rule area we are located in so with that someone on orange talk forum had mentioned it will the gave a list of possible causes. When you could get it to go to lock it would hold. When we disconnected the hoses and turned the wheel with the tractor off it would pump fluid one way or the other so it should have been turning the wheels when connected but would not. So figured the problem to be in the ram. Also with many years of turning a wrench I've found the most manufactures tend to be vague on areas of less expensive repairs so that more money can be made on diagnostic time. Also never been afaid to tear something apart. I figured if everything check good I was only out $150 for the seal kit and at that point I know the ram was in good condition. My only guess as to why it went bad is the heavy rental use it got before we bought the machine.

Well, sure... loosening up some ram hoses and then turning the wheel with the engine OFF is a is a dandy way to get another piece of info about pressure to the ram. Just curious....did you also try it with the engine ON?? .

Anyway, what bothers me is this.... How could anything have damaged the center seal in the ram? It happened, so we know it's possible. But WHY? I just hate to fix something without understanding why it went wrong.
So I've been trying to figure out what could cause the center seal to get damaged.... what are the possible culprit? Even used as a rental with cowboys acking the wheels around against obstructions I can see where that would beat up exterior things, but not the inside of the ram. ... OH! the light just went off... Exterior things.... Hmmmm.... maybe the steering stops? What if the steering stops got beat up or are way out of adjustment?

Because when the ram is doing normal or even really hard brutal steering that center seal never does contact anything solid that would cause the center seal to break. All that part does is just moves back and forth pushing and pulling on the ram rods. And when the steering goes all the way to one way or the other, there should be some sort of positive steering stop to take the stress first so that the center seal of the ram doesn't come up hard against the inside of the ram. Usually a steering stop is built somewhere on the steering knuckle and is something like an adjustable bolt that limits the movement of the steering knuckle by stopping it against something solid. Sometimes against the front axle case. I was going to go look at mine, but can't see mine in the deep snow today. But there has to be some sort of positive steering stop so that the cast iron knuckle and axle take the stress against the stop before the center seal in the ram gets to the limit of its internal movement.

I'd recommend you take a look at the steering stops. Check to see that the exterior steering stops are in place - whatever they are - and working to protect the rams center seal from traveling too far. The adjustment is described on page 6-S6 in the workshop manual....but kubota's text doesn't make much sense to me. Anyway, that's what I'd check. I can't think of anything else that would let the ram damage itself like a missing steering stop would.
good luck, rScotty