Trade MF1547 for MF1749?

[TSO]

Congrats on the "new" machine! My 1648 cab (was) and my 1652 cab (is) an awesome machine. Sometimes I think I want to get a shiny new tractor again just for the shine, but I don't think I could let this one go. Around 1000 hours and she still runs perfect. Never had a problem with it.

 

[Hilbilly]

Congrats on the "new" machine! My 1648 cab (was) and my 1652 cab (is) an awesome machine. Sometimes I think I want to get a shiny new tractor again just for the shine, but I don't think I could let this one go. Around 1000 hours and she still runs perfect. Never had a problem with it.

Glad to hear about your problem free experience. Hope mine goes as well. Why did you go from the 48 to the 52?

 

[TSO]

Different engine. The 1648 uses the Iseki 2.2L while the 1652 uses the Iseki 3.0L, naturally aspirated. Much better torque curve. Same engine (non turbo) tuned to 60hp in the 1660. I really liked the 1648 but figured since I'd have the machine for awhile, might as well get the one with the larger engine.

 

[Hilbilly]

Different engine. The 1648 uses the Iseki 2.2L while the 1652 uses the Iseki 3.0L, naturally aspirated. Much better torque curve. Same engine (non turbo) tuned to 60hp in the 1660. I really liked the 1648 but figured since I'd have the machine for awhile, might as well get the one with the larger engine.

Makes sense. Hope you didn't get hit too hard on the trade up.

I know what you mean. My 1547 also had the 2.2L Iseki and that motor had more torque than this Mitsubishi 1.7L. I can really tell at the bottom part of my driveway with a grade of 15%. The 1547 would climb up that section with the front plow down in high range, second gear, without a struggle. With chains on the front that thing was a tank in that gear. This tractor struggles in mid range, even without chains on and only pushing a small amount of snow. If I had to do it again I would probably look for a 1758, maybe the newer ones without all the pollution crap. But I like this tractor much better for 99% of what I've done with it so far. I just have to get used to the HST and the lower torque.

This whole thing started on a whim. My wife and I were in the city and on a spur of the moment thing I said I wanted to see how much a cab tractor was. Thinking if it wasn't too much I might consider trading in the old one and getting a new one so I could have a cab. Old age is catching up to me and I would like to be more comfortable when plowing in the cold. We stopped at the Kubota dealer to check on prices to see if this was even a consideration or not. The salesman told me the cabs in the grand L series ranged from mid $50k to low $60's (plus 12% tax of course). No way I was going to spend $60,000 to $70,000 just to get a cab tractor. When I got home I looked for used cab tractors on several websites and found this tractor listed at the same Kubota dealer, for 2 different prices. On their website it was $45k and on the Marketplace website it was $36,500. That is where this journey started.

 

[TSO]

No I did decent, I found my 1652 "nearly new" a few States away and had it shipped sight unseen based on my experience with the 1648. Then I sold the 1648 to a member on here.

I think the lack of power you're feeling (like others mentioned) has much more to do with the HST vs Gear Drive issue. Even if you had the 1758, I think you'd still find that the 1547 Gear machine you had put more power to the ground. Just the nature of the difference between the two transmissions. With HST you are trading away brute power for the convenience and productivity advancements with constant direction and speed changes.

Good luck with your new machine. Oh, and make sure you check the hydraulic relief valve setting. I found mine to be low and had to adjust the relief valve to get maximum loader strength.

 

[Hilbilly]

No I did decent, I found my 1652 "nearly new" a few States away and had it shipped sight unseen based on my experience with the 1648. Then I sold the 1648 to a member on here.

I think the lack of power you're feeling (like others mentioned) has much more to do with the HST vs Gear Drive issue. Even if you had the 1758, I think you'd still find that the 1547 Gear machine you had put more power to the ground. Just the nature of the difference between the two transmissions. With HST you are trading away brute power for the convenience and productivity advancements with constant direction and speed changes.

Good luck with your new machine. Oh, and make sure you check the hydraulic relief valve setting. I found mine to be low and had to adjust the relief valve to get maximum loader strength.

You're probably right about the power being an HST issue. I've only got about 15hrs on it so far (including the testing time at the dealers) and I'm still getting the feel of it. When I'm coming up the driveway it's kind of a balancing act to get the pedal position at a point where the rpms don't drop and I get max forward speed. With the gear trans it was a totally different approach.

That's a very good point about the relief valve setting too. I know this loader doesn't lift as much as my old one did and I think it is rated to. With the old loader I could very easily get the back of the tractor off the ground if I didn't have enough counterweight. This one will not lift the back even with no counterweight. It could be that the cab and extra wide (ballasted) tires add enough weight to prevent the back from coming off the ground but I don't think that is all of the difference. I'll have to figure out where the relief valve is and how to test / set it.

 

[TSO]

I've got an old thread showing how to adjust the pressure... do a search for it if you can. Not sure if you can search through my threads or not. Obviously that's assuming that they didn't change the relief valve location and type between the models

 

[Hilbilly]

Thanks, I'll take a look later.

 

[Hilbilly]

I found it and bookmarked it. I will wait until I get the new loader valve installed and see how the loader works afterwards. One thing I seen in the owners manual for this tractor is that the main pump setting is only 2277psi. Not very much pressure. Based on the info in the owners manual this loader should lift as much as my previous loader but that loader was operating at 2500psi. If that's true then the cylinders on this loader would have to be larger or mounted differently to provide the same lift capacity. Time will tell.

 

[Hilbilly]

Not sure if I should start another thread about this or not but here goes.

I just finished changing the transmission oil and took the tractor for a run down to my daughters place, about 2 miles away. This is the first time I've had a chance to run the tractor on a long flat road and found it would not get up to top speed. According to the owners manual, top speed is 28.6 kmh but no matter what I tried I couldn't get it over 25 and it was struggling. I tried using the hand throttle and setting the engine rpms to 2500 and then applying the forward HST pedal slowly but no matter how slowly I did that it wouldn't get above about 25kmh. The rpms would start to drop so I back off the foot pedal a little to get the rpms back up and then slowly apply pressure to the pedal again to try and get the speed up but no luck.

The owners manual states that even the 1742 tractors have a top speed of around 28 kmh, so I don't understand why a smaller engine tractor could produce that top speed but this one can't. Any ideas?

 

[stormcom]

Not sure if I should start another thread about this or not but here goes.

I just finished changing the transmission oil and took the tractor for a run down to my daughters place, about 2 miles away. This is the first time I've had a chance to run the tractor on a long flat road and found it would not get up to top speed. According to the owners manual, top speed is 28.6 kmh but no matter what I tried I couldn't get it over 25 and it was struggling. I tried using the hand throttle and setting the engine rpms to 2500 and then applying the forward HST pedal slowly but no matter how slowly I did that it wouldn't get above about 25kmh. The rpms would start to drop so I back off the foot pedal a little to get the rpms back up and then slowly apply pressure to the pedal again to try and get the speed up but no luck.

The owners manual states that even the 1742 tractors have a top speed of around 28 kmh, so I don't understand why a smaller engine tractor could produce that top speed but this one can't. Any ideas?

Could me many things. it converts over to 16mph. Take a phone with a speed app and check it. It may have had a tire change when it was new to a different tire. Air temp and fuel viscosity have something to do with it. Air cleaner iced up and also cetane of the fuel. Fuel filter, restricted fuel filter. At below 0, it takes h.p. to keep it running. What fuel are you running? winterized blend, #2, #1, kerosene. It is so cold the oil does not thin out. Mine at 30 degrees is running 16.7 for what is worth. I run #2 premium with 3 gal of marvel mystery oil in 250 gal tank. Up in Canada , I would not run #2. I had an Oldsmobile diesel that froze up on winterized blend in Illinois. The towed it into the dealership, changed the filters and put 5 gal. of jet fuel in it and sent me across the street to fill up with kerosene. A very old mechanic told me to always run Marvel in the fuel to lube the upper of the engine. Car ran like it was drunk. Could not hold it under 75. Just a personal experience.

I just think you are a victim of the cold. Put a pint of marvel mystery oil in a full tank and it will lube the upper cylinders and help you get some more rpm.

 

[Hilbilly]

Could me many things. it converts over to 16mph. Take a phone with a speed app and check it. It may have had a tire change when it was new to a different tire. Air temp and fuel viscosity have something to do with it. Air cleaner iced up and also cetane of the fuel. Fuel filter, restricted fuel filter. At below 0, it takes h.p. to keep it running. What fuel are you running? winterized blend, #2, #1, kerosene. It is so cold the oil does not thin out. Mine at 30 degrees is running 16.7 for what is worth. I run #2 premium with 3 gal of marvel mystery oil in 250 gal tank. Up in Canada , I would not run #2. I had an Oldsmobile diesel that froze up on winterized blend in Illinois. The towed it into the dealership, changed the filters and put 5 gal. of jet fuel in it and sent me across the street to fill up with kerosene. A very old mechanic told me to always run Marvel in the fuel to lube the upper of the engine. Car ran like it was drunk. Could not hold it under 75. Just a personal experience.

I just think you are a victim of the cold. Put a pint of marvel mystery oil in a full tank and it will lube the upper cylinders and help you get some more rpm.

No cel service where I am, so no go on the speed app, lol. I'm running winter fuel with double amounts of Gen 49D additive. This fuel did not gel at -30C. Today the temps were only around -5C and I have made this same run many times with the 1547 in much colder weather and it never had any issues with just running up to 2500 rpm on the way. I would get to the flats and use the hand throttle to run it up to 2500 rpm. It would just rip up to that speed and have lots of power left over.

If your 58 hp tractor is only maxing out at 17mph then maybe this is just an HST vs gear issue and I just need to adjust and accept it. One thing I just thought of was that the 1547 didn't have a speedo and maybe it's top speed was lower. That would certainly explain this. I need to do some checking.

EDIT: I found a site that listed the top speed of the 1547 at 29KMH. So that is not the issue.

 

[TSO]

The speed issue is probably directly related to your tires. The listed top speed is likely configured with R1 tires which are taller than the R4's you have on there. The taller tires will give you a higher top speed.

My 1648 had 14.9x24 R4's, and my 1652 has 17.5Lx24 tires. The 14.9's are narrower and slightly taller than the 17.5L's. My 1648 would get up to around 17mph, whereas my 1652 gets up to around 16.5mph.

 

[Hilbilly]

The speed issue is probably directly related to your tires. The listed top speed is likely configured with R1 tires which are taller than the R4's you have on there. The taller tires will give you a higher top speed.

My 1648 had 14.9x24 R4's, and my 1652 has 17.5Lx24 tires. The 14.9's are narrower and slightly taller than the 17.5L's. My 1648 would get up to around 17mph, whereas my 1652 gets up to around 16.5mph.

The owners manual has a very long section showing speed vs tire sizes. I have the 17.5 R-4's and the listed top speed for those tires is 28.59kph. There is also a line that says Top Speed is 30 something. I think the real issue isn't the ground speed but that the tractor is struggling. It won't get up to 2500rpm! If it got up to 2500rpm and got there easily I would accept that as the top speed, because the engine has reached top rev's and the speed is restricted by gearing. But this is different! The engine will not get to 2500 rpm because it does not have the power, yet the owners manual states that is the top speed for this and for the smaller engines. Something is not making sense.

Scott, does your 1758 get to the top speed quickly and easily (ie. without struggling)? If so then it is gear restricted (not a lack of power issue) and I would be happier knowing that's the issue. Not something wrong with this particular tractor.

John

 

[onceacop]

My 1758 is faster when in 4wd, try locking in front axle and compare both configurations. Doesn't make sense to me.

 

[Hilbilly]

My 1758 is faster when in 4wd, try locking in front axle and compare both configurations. Doesn't make sense to me.

I've been in 4 wd since I got it. Too much snow for 2 wd. I'll give it go tomorrow but I'm sure that's not the issue. Does your 1758 get up to top speed without struggling, ie gear restricted, not power restricted?

 

[TSO]

My 1758 is faster when in 4wd, try locking in front axle and compare both configurations. Doesn't make sense to me.

That's strange, mine is easier to keep at top speed in Hi range in 2wd.

 

[stormcom]

The owners manual has a very long section showing speed vs tire sizes. I have the 17.5 R-4's and the listed top speed for those tires is 28.59kph. There is also a line that says Top Speed is 30 something. I think the real issue isn't the ground speed but that the tractor is struggling. It won't get up to 2500rpm! If it got up to 2500rpm and got there easily I would accept that as the top speed, because the engine has reached top rev's and the speed is restricted by gearing. But this is different! The engine will not get to 2500 rpm because it does not have the power, yet the owners manual states that is the top speed for this and for the smaller engines. Something is not making sense.

Scott, does your 1758 get to the top speed quickly and easily (ie. without struggling)? If so then it is gear restricted (not a lack of power issue) and I would be happier knowing that's the issue. Not something wrong with this particular tractor.

John

Throw a little kerosene or mo.1 in it and try again. even though you double dosed your additive, it is still no 2. kerosene or no.1 diesel will get your rpm up as it is a lot thinner fuel.
I have industrial tires on mine and know they had 2 different sizes and widths. I went with the wide ones and had 5 gal. of sealer in each rear and 2.5 gal in each front.

I can not remember if you changed fuel filters. If your filter is waxed up, that could hurt tach. a waxed up injector could also.

Just called my massey friend. does the fuel have bio in it. it is a different viscosity below 0 than straight fuel.

I would throw at least a half a tank of no 1 in it and see.

 

[stormcom]

Throw a little kerosene or mo.1 in it and try again. even though you double dosed your additive, it is still no 2. kerosene or no.1 diesel will get your rpm up as it is a lot thinner fuel.
I have industrial tires on mine and know they had 2 different sizes and widths. I went with the wide ones and had 5 gal. of sealer in each rear and 2.5 gal in each front.

I can not remember if you changed fuel filters. If your filter is waxed up, that could hurt tach. a waxed up injector could also.

Just called my massey friend. does the fuel have bio in it. it is a different viscosity below 0 than straight fuel.

I would throw at least a half a tank of no 1 in it and see.

https://www.oreillyauto.com/detail/.../4682845?q=Diesel+Fuel+Injector+cleaner&pos=1

 

[Hilbilly]

Throw a little kerosene or mo.1 in it and try again. even though you double dosed your additive, it is still no 2. kerosene or no.1 diesel will get your rpm up as it is a lot thinner fuel.
I have industrial tires on mine and know they had 2 different sizes and widths. I went with the wide ones and had 5 gal. of sealer in each rear and 2.5 gal in each front.

I can not remember if you changed fuel filters. If your filter is waxed up, that could hurt tach. a waxed up injector could also.

Just called my massey friend. does the fuel have bio in it. it is a different viscosity below 0 than straight fuel.

I would throw at least a half a tank of no 1 in it and see.

I'm pretty sure the diesel I'm using is No 1. I get it from the local station, which is the same source I've used for the 10 years we've lived here. I've never had a problem with their diesel in my previous diesel tractors or my diesel trucks. That is the fuel I am adding a double dose of Gen49D to, for the tractor. I was running this fuel even when the temps were much lower (-20C) and didn't have any issues then. Yesterday when I ran the tractor on the flats it was around -8C, not very cold. I am running the same fuel in my diesel truck, with no added conditioner, and it has had no issues, even in -30C temps. Makes me think it is not a fuel issue.

The fuel may contain biodiesel but there is no way to know for sure. All the stations around here label their diesel with the catch all phrase "may contain up to __% biodiesel".

I haven't changed the fuel filters yet but I did check them, plus I drained the prefilter to make sure there wasn't any water in it.

One thing to consider is that the tractor will get up to full rev's in the lower ranges so I don't think it is a fuel starvation issue.

I'm going to try running it in 2wd to see if that makes a difference.

When you guys are saying your top speed is 16 or 17 mph, is the tractor revving at 2500 rpm and does it get there easily? I'm curious to see if that speed is limited by the gearing or lack of HP.