Def, dpf, etc.

[TheMadOne]

Well I just don’t want to get a tractor that will be a pain in the neck with the need for regeneration, clogged dpf filter, and the expense of replacing them. I’ve read that dpf filters will require replacement much sooner than 3000 hrs.

Where have you read that? You're currently on a forum filled with owners of these machines. If there was a widespread problem I'd think we'd know about it. Also DPF filters are cleanable, at least the ones I'm aware of.

I've owned a tractor with a DPF for years. Run them hot and you'll never need a parked regen. I've never had to so much as stop working, just had to bump the throttle up and go back to what I was doing.

 

[boomer1025]

Well I just don’t want to get a tractor that will be a pain in the neck with the need for regeneration, clogged dpf filter, and the expense of replacing them. I’ve read that dpf filters will require replacement much sooner than 3000 hrs.

Well if you don't want to mess with after-treatment stuff, then look for a nice older used tractor in the horsepower range you want.

 

[deserteagle71]

Where have you read that? You're currently on a forum filled with owners of these machines. If there was a widespread problem I'd think we'd know about it. Also DPF filters are cleanable, at least the ones I'm aware of.

I've owned a tractor with a DPF for years. Run them hot and you'll never need a parked regen. I've never had to so much as stop working, just had to bump the throttle up and go back to what I was doing.

^ This. I've had my Kubota for 13 months now and all regenerations have happened while I was working the tractor. The light indicating regeneration is happening goes on on the dash, and then 15 or so minutes later it goes off. That's all there is to it - I don't have to do anything different than what I would normally do. When I first bought the tractor I was apprehensive about the process but now I know its nothing to stress over.

When I was tractor shopping a year ago I found out that the New Holland 4.75 Powerstar did not have a DPF and didn't need to go through a regenration process - it's the DOC process described above. In effect, it regenerates continuously - the instructions on the New Holland I looked at said to keep the RPMs up all the time to make sure the exhaust stayed hot.

 

[Jchonline]

Hey its your choice. Just know there are thousands and thousands of very satisfied DPF tractor owners out there. On the Massey make sure you get the newly produced model. Last years still had the DPF and they may still be on some lots.

Also be careful with the newer technology, as there may be growing pains. While the DPF might be annoying to you, in many cases it has been working fine in machines for years.

 

[Jchonline]

^ This. I've had my Kubota for 13 months now and all regenerations have happened while I was working the tractor. The light indicating regeneration is happening goes on on the dash, and then 15 or so minutes later it goes off. That's all there is to it - I don't have to do anything different than what I would normally do. When I first bought the tractor I was apprehensive about the process but now I know its nothing to stress over.

When I was tractor shopping a year ago I found out that the New Holland 4.75 Powerstar did not have a DPF and didn't need to go through a regenration process - it's the DOC process described above. In effect, it regenerates continuously - the instructions on the New Holland I looked at said to keep the RPMs up all the time to make sure the exhaust stayed hot.

Good points. In Summary, there is no free lunch. Somehow that tractor has to have something added to it to burn off the soot. DPF is one way to do it. DOC is another. Don’t think for one minute that because there is no DPF that you wont be doing something to burn it off.

 

[MaineGuy1]

Good points. In Summary, there is no free lunch. Somehow that tractor has to have something added to it to burn off the soot. DPF is one way to do it. DOC is another. Don’t think for one minute that because there is no DPF that you wont be doing something to burn it off.

Do you mean the tractor "won't be doing something to burn it off" because with my Massey engine I don't do anything, nothing at all. Now yes, the tractor has DOC and that is how it is emissions compliant. Massey also states that there exhaust gas temps are not higher because of this, I don't know if that is true. I have both a Kubota and Massey, so I visit both these dealers frequently to purchase stuff. Yes I do here the employees complaining about the DPF/Regen and yes it is mostly operator error. Especially here in Maine when it is cold you have to get your engine up to temp, that is difficult to do in some of the temps we get. I don't think there is a huge problem with DPF tractors, the issue is when you do get one that gives you trouble, it seems to always act up and it is also a headache for the dealer. Both dealers tell me they make so many house calls to hook up the computers to resolve the issues. Maybe areas that have cold winters have more troubles? I don't know.

 

[jeffgreef]

As a first-time new tractor buyer, I want to be very careful about what I buy, and particularly because it will probably be the only new tractor I ever buy. I’ll use it a lot at first and then very little, held in reserve for snow clearing. Anyway, I don’t want a problematic machine if I can get one that doesn’t have those problems.

I don’t recall where I read that DPF filters will need frequent replacement and now it’s clear they do not. However, they can become clogged through operator error and will eventually need to be professionally ash cleaned. Some people have problems with these things and these problems all flow down to the dealers, as we see from posts above. I’d rather avoid these problems altogether and have a reliable unit that requires a minimum of maintenance. That’s why my original question was- which manufacturers of CUTs don’t have them (still unanswered- I guess just Mahindra and Massey).

Why don’t I just get an older used one without it? I have been scouring craigslist for years now just to become familiar with the used market for when I eventually buy. Finding exactly what I need in hp range with quick-attach loader, midmount pto, extra hydraulics, frame-mount backhoe etc. in the used market is pretty rare. I could get a used one without all this and add it on, and in the end spend about the same money as buying new. Might as well get the whole package at once.

One more chip in the pot is I would like to be able to operate with 100 percent biodiesel. Perhaps for this reason I must buy older used, since even Mahindra, without DPF, says not to use biodiesel in the new units because they are engineered to run on dinosaur oil.

For pro operators who are used to keeping track of multiple maintenance issues on multiple machines, the extra minimal issues with DPF are minor. For ‘hobby farmers’ and other part-time operators like myself it’s just one more problem that can be avoided. As well, as the technology advances, probably all manufacturers will develop systems without DPF, like Mahindra and Massey. Then, the tractors made from 2013 to 2022 or so that DO have it will be seen as undesirable for resale, an older problematic technology like the smogged-out cars of the late 70s. This is of little concern to pro operators who aren’t thinking much about resale because they are going to use the machine through most or all of its life anyway, but for us non-pros, resale of a 15 year old unit with 1000 hrs on it is an important factor to consider.

 

[boomer1025]

Not sure you'll ever see DPF, DOC, EGR DEF go away on a diesel engine. Unless they can clean up diesel fuel to burn like gas. I think the next step will be CNG or Electric with possibly hyd or electric drive units.
Personally I want no part of diesel emission, seen what it's done to the OTR equipment and the high cost to keep it working. I'll stay with the old non-emission stuff or find older gas operated equipment.

 

[Jchonline]

As a first-time new tractor buyer, I want to be very careful about what I buy, and particularly because it will probably be the only new tractor I ever buy. I’ll use it a lot at first and then very little, held in reserve for snow clearing. Anyway, I don’t want a problematic machine if I can get one that doesn’t have those problems.

I don’t recall where I read that DPF filters will need frequent replacement and now it’s clear they do not. However, they can become clogged through operator error and will eventually need to be professionally ash cleaned. Some people have problems with these things and these problems all flow down to the dealers, as we see from posts above. I’d rather avoid these problems altogether and have a reliable unit that requires a minimum of maintenance. That’s why my original question was- which manufacturers of CUTs don’t have them (still unanswered- I guess just Mahindra and Massey).

Why don’t I just get an older used one without it? I have been scouring craigslist for years now just to become familiar with the used market for when I eventually buy. Finding exactly what I need in hp range with quick-attach loader, midmount pto, extra hydraulics, frame-mount backhoe etc. in the used market is pretty rare. I could get a used one without all this and add it on, and in the end spend about the same money as buying new. Might as well get the whole package at once.

One more chip in the pot is I would like to be able to operate with 100 percent biodiesel. Perhaps for this reason I must buy older used, since even Mahindra, without DPF, says not to use biodiesel in the new units because they are engineered to run on dinosaur oil.

For pro operators who are used to keeping track of multiple maintenance issues on multiple machines, the extra minimal issues with DPF are minor. For ‘hobby farmers’ and other part-time operators like myself it’s just one more problem that can be avoided. As well, as the technology advances, probably all manufacturers will develop systems without DPF, like Mahindra and Massey. Then, the tractors made from 2013 to 2022 or so that DO have it will be seen as undesirable for resale, an older problematic technology like the smogged-out cars of the late 70s. This is of little concern to pro operators who aren’t thinking much about resale because they are going to use the machine through most or all of its life anyway, but for us non-pros, resale of a 15 year old unit with 1000 hrs on it is an important factor to consider.

My point is you are still putting diesel (dirty fuel)into the engine. Something has to be different than a engine prior to Tier 4 in all cases (DPF, DOC, etc). So just because an engine doesnt have a DPF doesnt mean it isnt doing something else that will require maintenance down the road. For instance the Doosan engines in the new Bobcat Skid Steers uses a special fuel filter to micronize the fuel particles as before they are sucked into the engine (allows more efficient burning of fuel...less soot). These filters are expensive, and also are must more likely to clog (especially in cold weather). The filters have to be replaced every 6 months or so. There is no DPF so the Bobcat much be great right? Not when you dig into what was changed to make it Tier 4 compliant. I am not saying the Massey is the same, I am saying you should dig in and find out what compromises were made to meet Tier 4.

As far as the tractor brands.. Massey started last year. Mahindra has had them for a bit longer.

 

[jeffgreef]

Granted there will be emissions equipment on all new diesel machines from this point on. But I wonder if it will always be problematic. Mahindra appears to have made a solution that requires minimal if any extra maintenance for CUTs. No DPF, just DOC and a re-engineered engine. As yet, I haven’t heard that a Mahindra DOC needs any maintenance or replacement. This, they say, is due to the re-engineered engine. So no, I don’t think it’s inevitable that there will always be extra maintenance down the road, just like the cat converter on my 20 year old gas burner truck.