Battery Size for YM2210?

[clemsonfor]

I had to go check my Specs. I was kind of surprised group 34 only 550cca. It's a Deka534MF Sealed. I was really surprised only 550. I never had any problems with it so never really paid much Attn. to it. wrote it down so I know what to look for when or "if" it does go out. I'm going to have to try and find a dealer local because it looked Exceptionally in great shape!!!

I think that's the group battery Ford used? I know the group size they used for years in the 80s and 90s ( maybe even later) Ford cars and even trucks only had 550 cca. That's more than enough if it can start a 5.0 v8 is sub zero temps. It surely can start our tiny tractor.

 

[Barnabas2019]

Thanks for your answers! The idea of buying the largest battery that the cavity will hold is a good one, and I will consider even modifying the battery holder. I thought flooded batteries were the best starting type so never considered the Optima type....but every Optima I looked at was really expen$ive. ouch!

California, I never heard of releasing the compression for starting but there is a decal identifying the decompression arm. I'll do that when the engine is cold.

rScotty, the rubber gasket around the radiator.....I can see exactly where that should go, so I'll add that to the list.

Based on your suggestions, I'll be looking for either group 24, 27, 31, or 34 batteries, with somewhere between 550 and 950 CCA.

 

[clemsonfor]

Thanks for your answers! The idea of buying the largest battery that the cavity will hold is a good one, and I will consider even modifying the battery holder. I thought flooded batteries were the best starting type so never considered the Optima type....but every Optima I looked at was really expen$ive. ouch!

California, I never heard of releasing the compression for starting but there is a decal identifying the decompression arm. I'll do that when the engine is cold.

rScotty, the rubber gasket around the radiator.....I can see exactly where that should go, so I'll add that to the list.

Based on your suggestions, I'll be looking for either group 24, 27, 31, or 34 batteries, with somewhere between 550 and 950 CCA.

More CCA is better, but no need to get carried away it's not like it's a huge Cat track hoe or a 7.3 powerstroke. Just the more CCA the more power battery has and the Les you tax it on start up and therefore the longer it will last. Which is probably why every one is getting so long out of their batteries, it does not take much power to start them esp with the compression release.

And on the compression release. Use it every time it's cold. Most all of us wait to close it till the oil pressure light goes out as well. This can make a weak battery able to start the engine cause of that flywheel inertia.

 

[careyo63]

I always use my Decompression and never release it until the oil light does go out. Sometimes after I already started it only a couple seconds. I already was in my starter a yr. after I purchased it and then had to get it rebuilt a couple yrs. later. Easier on it doing it that way.
I'm sure the battery will make it another Yr. since winter cold weather is over. That will be 12Yrs.. That's F-bomb fantastic. Esp. only @ 550cca..
Talk about a 5.0 Ford, My truck is only 5.4 and on my 3rd.. It's a 01 and sits a lot is my guess why so many. Only hit the shop 1 time At around 35.000 miles. Spark knock and play in the Drive shaft from being a long bed. 115.000 now. I do have a Towing package on it for when I would Pull my Ranger B-boat at the time and my Little Yanmar. The 39Gal. tank goes a long way on the Highway that's for sure. Atl. to Disney/Orlando before the Gas light would come on.... Average 65 MPH. around 18mpg. on the Highway. My father retired from Way up at Ford Credit and found it for me at one of his dealers. That's Who he worked for when we lived in Oh.. Tractors was still in the dealers then so he new and told me all about the Yanmar debacle when I asked him about it purchasing my first one. Which he didn't blame them one bit for dropping out of the US. market. Sometimes it does help to know people in high places.

 

[rScotty]

Thanks for your answers! The idea of buying the largest battery that the cavity will hold is a good one, and I will consider even modifying the battery holder. I thought flooded batteries were the best starting type so never considered the Optima type....but every Optima I looked at was really expen$ive. ouch!

California, I never heard of releasing the compression for starting but there is a decal identifying the decompression arm. I'll do that when the engine is cold.

rScotty, the rubber gasket around the radiator.....I can see exactly where that should go, so I'll add that to the list.

Based on your suggestions, I'll be looking for either group 24, 27, 31, or 34 batteries, with somewhere between 550 and 950 CCA.

Yep, the Optimas are expensive. I use them because I got in the habit back when they were the only really good AGM type on the market...but frankly I'm not sure they are worth the price premium today. I'd hope that the rest of the AGM industry has caught up.
AGMs should have higher cranking amps for lots of reasons: They have a lot more internal lead surface area is in contact with the acid, the acid itself has less impurities, and the connections have no corrosion. Not saying that all of that is always true, but it should be if they are made right.

On compression, most of us use the de-compression lever so that the engine will spin up faster. Starting that way builds oil pressure without the combustion loading and and is easier on the battery/starter too.
Then after a few seconds of rapid de-compressed spining we push the decompression lever in and the motor fires. What the decompression does is to simply hold the exhaust valves open so that the engine can't make any compression. There is a hazard here, so check that yours doesn't open the exhaust valve so far that it hits the piston. That can lead to bent valves. That's not a guarantee problem though.... and luckily the valves can touch just slightly enough to make a sound without bending - if so, it makes a noise that you will certainly hear happening. So if you hear an odd tapping sound when you pull the decompression knob then don't pull it out so far. ...and then be sure to adjust it before next time.

Good luck,
rScotty

 

[CoyPatton]

Sure, lots of thoughts.... In wet cell batteries, there is no downside to going to a larger width and length battery as long as it will fit the battery mount. The voltage stays the same, you just get more amperage available with the larger battery.

Our old YM165D came with a group 24 battery. When battery time came around I enlarged the battery box to fit a Group 27 battery - which not only has more capacity but tends to be a less expensive & more common battery.

In the process I noticed that the old battery was a wet cell type and was often wet on top - the wetness is acid of course.... not good... That acid had several times gotten blown around the area and caused some corrosion.
So I made sure that the new battery I bought was a sealed AGM type. Slightly more expensive, but it has got to be better for the radiator.

Speaking of the radiator....while you are looking around that area of the tractor, Yanmar's older tech bulletins were concerned that the radiator be kept clean with good air flow. They even had a dealer's program to make sure that there was proper stuffing between the radiator shell and the shroud around the radiator fan. The stuffing was just foam rubber with a sticky side but wedged in there to make sure that the air flow was through the radiator fins and not just sneaking in between radiator and fan shroud.
rScotty

Sorry but I have to disagree! Forget physical size of the battery with cranking power! Check the labels on the battery for cold cranking amps! So get the most cold cranking amps in a battery that will fit in your battery compartment.
Again physical size IS NOT an indicator of cranking capacity!

 

[clemsonfor]

Sorry but I have to disagree! Forget physical size of the battery with cranking power! Check the labels on the battery for cold cranking amps! So get the most cold cranking amps in a battery that will fit in your battery compartment.
Again physical size IS NOT an indicator of cranking capacity!

You are correct. A huge golf cart deep cycle battery has very small cranking amps. But it's not designed to be a cranking battery. But generally as automotive batteries go up in size so does cca. There are some exceptions to this of course. But you also are dipping into reserve capacity with battery size. The smaller the less time it can supply those cca's when trying to start. The longer a battery can stay as close to 100% capacity during it's life the longer it will last. And since these are not deep cycle batteries long cranking sessions or taking too much power out of it during cranking or use the shorter the life of the battery will have.

 

[CoyPatton]

You are correct. A huge golf cart deep cycle battery has very small cranking amps. But it's not designed to be a cranking battery. But generally as automotive batteries go up in size so does cca. There are some exceptions to this of course. But you also are dipping into reserve capacity with battery size. The smaller the less time it can supply those cca's when trying to start. The longer a battery can stay as close to 100% capacity during it's life the longer it will last. And since these are not deep cycle batteries long cranking sessions or taking too much power out of it during cranking or use the shorter the life of the battery will have.

Sorry but I still disagree! Your argument to prefer a larger physical size because it has more reserve capacity is inaccurate! Reserve capacity is a factor of lead in the battery. Your argument for size determining this is s myth in automotive batteries! Size in auto batteries is determine by what they are made to fit. Pure and simple! Also few automotive batteries have a reserve capacity rating, therefore the closest you can get to judging that in automotive batteries is weight but that is a hit and mis prospect at best.
Reserve capacity is a rating you will find on deep cycle batteries and marine. You will find marine batteries with marine cranking amp ratings and reserve capacity. But those cranking amps do not compare to cold cranking amps!

Now to provide as long a life for your automotive batteries as possible, keep them charged but not over charged.

 

[clemsonfor]

Sorry but I still disagree! Your argument to prefer a larger physical size because it has more reserve capacity is inaccurate! Reserve capacity is a factor of lead in the battery. Your argument for size determining this is s myth in automotive batteries! Size in auto batteries is determine by what they are made to fit. Pure and simple! Also few automotive batteries have a reserve capacity rating, therefore the closest you can get to judging that in automotive batteries is weight but that is a hit and mis prospect at best.
Reserve capacity is a rating you will find on deep cycle batteries and marine. You will find marine batteries with marine cranking amp ratings and reserve capacity. But those cranking amps do not compare to cold cranking amps!

Now to provide as long a life for your automotive batteries as possible, keep them charged but not over charged.

So your still telling me that old Honda batter they used in the 90s maybe even still today I haven't been in parts biz in almost 20 years. But it was like 1.5 times the size of a lawnmower battery. Your telling me that little battery has as much stored power as a group 27 battery? I agree if engineered for higher cranking amps it could have them but no way it could produce them very long in that tiny case with such small amount of lead.

I am not one saying that we need 900cca for these small tractors just cause you can buy a better that produces it. These are small engines and not giant displacement engines that need much. Any size automotive battery will start them.

 

[rScotty]

So your still telling me that old Honda batter they used in the 90s maybe even still today I haven't been in parts biz in almost 20 years. But it was like 1.5 times the size of a lawnmower battery. Your telling me that little battery has as much stored power as a group 27 battery? I agree if engineered for higher cranking amps it could have them but no way it could produce them very long in that tiny case with such small amount of lead.

I am not one saying that we need 900cca for these small tractors just cause you can buy a better that produces it. These are small engines and not giant displacement engines that need much. Any size automotive battery will start them.

Well, I basically agree with Clemson....although Coy does have a point in a way - although the extra amps aren't really a "factor of lead in the battery". All else being equal, those extra amps are actually a function of how much Surface Area of that lead is exposed to the acid. Most batteries usea setup of parallel plates, so bigger and heavier means more surface area and hence more amps no matter how you measure them. But not always....

Not always, because that surface area can be increased in several other ways. One common way is by using some form of tricky lead plate geometry. Optima batteries do this by winding the lead into a cylinder instead of using parallel plates. Others do it with a waffle-like surface pattern on the plates. Both are more money. I appreciate the effort & don't mind paying the price $$ sometimes, but their sophisticated plate shape does make it an expensive battery.

And it's not just the extra price for the nifty plate shape, the problem is even worse because even for twice the price I don't actually get much of a reduction in battery size & weight - there's a little benefit; but not a whole lot.

In general it's just as Clemson says, heavier and larger batteries have more of every kind of useful power - how could they not? But also as he says, even a small automotive battery will spin one of our compact tractors well enough to start it in the worst weather. That's all you need.

Case in point: Our old YM165 Yanmar came from the factory with some sort of physically small, cheap, & lightweight garden tractor battery. You've seen the kind - sort of a clear greenish plastic case and a type common to motorcycles and lawnmowers. That battery was marginal in the best of weather even when new. Just not enough amps.... So I replaced it with a small automotive battery and it would spin that little diesel up at any temp.

IMHO, the best advice here is to figure out how to mount a small automotive group 24 or 27 auto battery in your Yanmar. It makes a world of difference and is all you need. A sealed type battery will keep the terminals cleaner and make the cables last longer. So get that kind if you can.
rScotty