Sanity Check - Kioti

[paulfun9]

The small dings, scratches that were explained to me wouldn’t deter anyone from buying it as used and probably would be overlooked by most looking for a work truck. Again everyone is different and I know some people would spend the money to fix even the smallest imperfection that happened. To understand me you must understand my car is immaculate but my truck is for work not like many of the buyers who really do not need a truck. To begin with. Let’s see the type, they tow once a year for only a few miles, did a remodel once on thier House ten years ago and think they might have to do an other some day, the wife who never used the bed once, can’t park the damm thing anyway but thinks because it has 4 doors and the kids are growing it’s a good Idea because her husband needs one for his work so why not her.

I looked at a truck yesterday with a friend and thought why bother, it had so many doo dads and options with such a fancy interior I would be afraid to get it dirty at the cost. What I found even more baffling was the owner of it for 2 years had to stop and think about how to make many of the options work as he didn’t seem to use most of them that he showed us. He also had to pull over to the side of the road to turn off the heat when requested as it wasn’t just a knob, he had to hit buttons, then use the touch screen but still didn’t really seem to know how to adjust the fan speed. All I could think was why would anyone in thier right mind want to have to deal with such a complex system for something that should be so simple.

Anyway I will be going to the dealership this week sometime with that same friend when he looks at new trucks and just for giggles I will be getting a price on a lease. Like I said I am a curious person and I want to see what a similar truck would cost as a new lease compared to what the used one we looked at and made on offer on would sell for if he buys that one.

 

[nards444]

The small dings, scratches that were explained to me wouldn稚 deter anyone from buying it as used and probably would be overlooked by most looking for a work truck. Again everyone is different and I know some people would spend the money to fix even the smallest imperfection that happened. To understand me you must understand my car is immaculate but my truck is for work not like many of the buyers who really do not need a truck. To begin with. Let痴 see the type, they tow once a year for only a few miles, did a remodel once on thier House ten years ago and think they might have to do an other some day, the wife who never used the bed once, can稚 park the damm thing anyway but thinks because it has 4 doors and the kids are growing it痴 a good Idea because her husband needs one for his work so why not her.

I looked at a truck yesterday with a friend and thought why bother, it had so many doo dads and options with such a fancy interior I would be afraid to get it dirty at the cost. What I found even more baffling was the owner of it for 2 years had to stop and think about how to make many of the options work as he didn稚 seem to use most of them that he showed us. He also had to pull over to the side of the road to turn off the heat when requested as it wasn稚 just a knob, he had to hit buttons, then use the touch screen but still didn稚 really seem to know how to adjust the fan speed. All I could think was why would anyone in thier right mind want to have to deal with such a complex system for something that should be so simple.

Anyway I will be going to the dealership this week sometime with that same friend when he looks at new trucks and just for giggles I will be getting a price on a lease. Like I said I am a curious person and I want to see what a similar truck would cost as a new lease compared to what the used one we looked at and made on offer on would sell for if he buys that one.

Yeah usually with leases anything that fits inside of like a 3-4in circle is not held against you. But I am the type new, old, leased owned it gets a ding it gets fixed, OCD I guess. yeah the 50k grocery getters is nuts I shake my head too, just like the 60-70k super dutys to haul around wheel barrows and small trailers, but to each their own.

Trucks do have a lot of crap in them these days, no ways around it. I would gander that if you went with a brand new truck these days non work truck version but still bottom of the line truck with 4x4 and cab your all of in the mid 30s for one of them easy. We bought work trucks at work and they were still 28-30k.

 

[prof fate]

My girlfriend has had her 25 acre horse farm for 20 years. Other than lawn mowing she's hired it all out - brush hogging the pasture weeds, driveway work, trees, any digging, post holes, etc.

I come along and it's harder to get someone to brush hog, i'm a mechanic - lets get a tractor! 22k later...plus implements (2k? 3k? 4k? most used..afraid to add it up) and well, we're not paying for snow removal or brush hogging.

Where the 'value' lies is in all the other stuff we can do - move round bales, level dirt, move compost (aka manure), built an arena (leveling, grading, post holes, moving lumber, etc).

Instead of 3 brush hogs a year we can do it monthly - fewer weeds, better pasture.

I've put 210 hours on the tractor in 10 1/2 months - 4 or 5 of them being winter.

A friend has a rental property and bought a new mower for there. Why? Cheaper than a trailer and hitch to move his mower there weekly. I guess he coulda hired it out, but the mower is $175...paying to have it mowed is way more than that, even allowing for his time to mow it.

I've bought a lot of tools over the years, and the ones that stayed on to become a part of our rural lifestyle are the tools we bought for quality, not price. I'd like to say that was a conscious decision, but it wasn't. It's only in looking back that I am finally realizing how true it is.

Several posters talk about the economics of investment. That hits home, because we keep good enough records so that I'm absolutely positive that for what I've spent in backhoes attachments alone over the past 50 years I could have saved substantial dollars by simply hiring the work done. No question about that. In fact, I refuse to look too closely because the same probably applies to a lot of our tractor work.....half of it at least.

All I would have missed would be the fun of planning these jobs followed by the enjoyment of doing them myself at my own convenience in my own way on my own land and being able to share these projects with friends and family.

When money is scarce we generally fix up used equipment to work. That's easy to do; anyone who has the need can do the same.
rScotty

 

[borderm3]

LOL GUYS!!!!!!!!!!

This got super off topic, but since we are here. I actually have an opinion on the matter. I am a big car guy, had a shop, worked in pro racing many years, fix my own, etc. The problem with purchasing NEWER cars is that they are an ENORMOUS liability. Especially any luxury cars, most new cars have 40+ computers, complex canbus systems, and the more trinkets the more things that fail. You can no longer work on them yourself, and many times when something fails you have to buy brand new at the dealer and have *THEM* recode it to your VIN. The days where you had a reliable car that you could make last are largely over. Ergo, cars have became an enormous liability. They aren't made to last anymore, so the guy who has a car after the lease has a POS that is going to drain his wallet. Go look around at any Chevy Truck from the early 2010's they all have rusting fenders, rockers, and frames; That's not even going into the electronics part of things. The only vehicles I would ever buy are Toyotas or Hondas and it shows in their resale value. Go look at the prices of 3 year old Cadillac's. Also, in the case of expensive luxury vehicles the residuals are often so good that you can lease something for MUCH cheaper than you would buy it. E.g. you can lease a brand new BMW M3 (MSRP ~80k) for $750 a month, LITERALLY, the only thing you pay for is tires and gasoline. They change oil, brakes, etc. This means you can reliably budget without any surprises. You also have no dead weight at the table when you want to get your next car, a trade in is always a bargaining chip for the dealer. "Oh, look at this scratch, this ding, tires are worn, spot here, etc.." I happened to just had this conversation with a friend of the family, they wanted to trade in their Toyota Highlander and buy a Lincon or a Cadillac because they were in their budget at 20k. I explained that they have to think of the position they will be in 3-6 years from now when they want another car and they will be upside down with the Cadillac, of course they ended up buying the Cadillac.

One thing I am learning in life is you can only guide people, you can't make decisions for them. JUST like how I will end up buying a tractor despite renting might be a tad cheaper (In my case). Speaking of, back on topic. I have about half an acre of woods to clear out, grade, and put parking/garage there, dig out for a retaining wall, grade, put in a couple hundred feet of drainage, dig quite a few stumps out, mow my grass (I currently pay about $600 a year), dig for electrical conduit to fix lamps up my driveway, dig out something in my yard, plow, and salt in the winter. Not to mention help my dad with many things in his property as he is getting a little old in age. He grew up on a farm and is really excited about me getting a tractor. For me, there are a few more elements other than money involved here. There is a great deal of gratification I get for doing something myself and seeing the results. I just didn't want to be over my *** with the tractor like I am with this side by side. Does this make any sense to anyone else?

 

[rScotty]

Anyway I will be going to the dealership this week sometime with that same friend when he looks at new trucks and just for giggles I will be getting a price on a lease. Like I said I am a curious person and I want to see what a similar truck would cost as a new lease compared to what the used one we looked at and made on offer on would sell for if he buys that one.

I'll be curious to hear what you find out.
rScotty

 

[rScotty]

LOL GUYS!!!!!!!!!!

This got super off topic, but since we are here. I actually have an opinion on the matter. I am a big car guy, had a shop, worked in pro racing many years, fix my own, etc. The problem with purchasing NEWER cars is that they are an ENORMOUS liability. Especially any luxury cars, most new cars have 40+ computers, complex canbus systems, and the more trinkets the more things that fail. You can no longer work on them yourself, and many times when something fails you have to buy brand new at the dealer and have *THEM* recode it to your VIN. The days where you had a reliable car that you could make last are largely over. Ergo, cars have became an enormous liability. They aren't made to last anymore, so the guy who has a car after the lease has a POS that is going to drain his wallet. Go look around at any Chevy Truck from the early 2010's they all have rusting fenders, rockers, and frames; That's not even going into the electronics part of things. The only vehicles I would ever buy are Toyotas or Hondas and it shows in their resale value. Go look at the prices of 3 year old Cadillac's. Also, in the case of expensive luxury vehicles the residuals are often so good that you can lease something for MUCH cheaper than you would buy it. E.g. you can lease a brand new BMW M3 (MSRP ~80k) for $750 a month, LITERALLY, the only thing you pay for is tires and gasoline. They change oil, brakes, etc. This means you can reliably budget without any surprises. You also have no dead weight at the table when you want to get your next car, a trade in is always a bargaining chip for the dealer. "Oh, look at this scratch, this ding, tires are worn, spot here, etc.." I happened to just had this conversation with a friend of the family, they wanted to trade in their Toyota Highlander and buy a Lincon or a Cadillac because they were in their budget at 20k. I explained that they have to think of the position they will be in 3-6 years from now when they want another car and they will be upside down with the Cadillac, of course they ended up buying the Cadillac.

One thing I am learning in life is you can only guide people, you can't make decisions for them. JUST like how I will end up buying a tractor despite renting might be a tad cheaper (In my case). Speaking of, back on topic. I have about half an acre of woods to clear out, grade, and put parking/garage there, dig out for a retaining wall, grade, put in a couple hundred feet of drainage, dig quite a few stumps out, mow my grass (I currently pay about $600 a year), dig for electrical conduit to fix lamps up my driveway, dig out something in my yard, plow, and salt in the winter. Not to mention help my dad with many things in his property as he is getting a little old in age. He grew up on a farm and is really excited about me getting a tractor. For me, there are a few more elements other than money involved here. There is a great deal of gratification I get for doing something myself and seeing the results. I just didn't want to be over my *** with the tractor like I am with this side by side. Does this make any sense to anyone else?

The best conversations do tend to wander around. Lots of it is pertinent, though - renting vs hiring vs buying for certain projects for instance. I'm thinking of that 150 feet of wall.
Did you ever go try out those CK se and hst Kiotis? And I still think that you should rent for a day to a week before buying.

For a Cadillac type of machine for the person who mentions lots of dirt work but is not looking to do any mowing , I like the Kubota B26 TLB with BH thumb and 3pt kit. The huge downside to that machine is that is is very expensive - especially as compared with the CKs you priced with similar capability. But by trying one of each out you would at least know what that feels like on slopes and when moving dirt. I think you'd learn more in a day that way than any other.
rScotty

 

[nards444]

LOL GUYS!!!!!!!!!!

This got super off topic, but since we are here. I actually have an opinion on the matter. I am a big car guy, had a shop, worked in pro racing many years, fix my own, etc. The problem with purchasing NEWER cars is that they are an ENORMOUS liability. Especially any luxury cars, most new cars have 40+ computers, complex canbus systems, and the more trinkets the more things that fail. You can no longer work on them yourself, and many times when something fails you have to buy brand new at the dealer and have *THEM* recode it to your VIN. The days where you had a reliable car that you could make last are largely over. Ergo, cars have became an enormous liability. They aren't made to last anymore, so the guy who has a car after the lease has a POS that is going to drain his wallet. Go look around at any Chevy Truck from the early 2010's they all have rusting fenders, rockers, and frames; That's not even going into the electronics part of things. The only vehicles I would ever buy are Toyotas or Hondas and it shows in their resale value. Go look at the prices of 3 year old Cadillac's. Also, in the case of expensive luxury vehicles the residuals are often so good that you can lease something for MUCH cheaper than you would buy it. E.g. you can lease a brand new BMW M3 (MSRP ~80k) for $750 a month, LITERALLY, the only thing you pay for is tires and gasoline. They change oil, brakes, etc. This means you can reliably budget without any surprises. You also have no dead weight at the table when you want to get your next car, a trade in is always a bargaining chip for the dealer. "Oh, look at this scratch, this ding, tires are worn, spot here, etc.." I happened to just had this conversation with a friend of the family, they wanted to trade in their Toyota Highlander and buy a Lincon or a Cadillac because they were in their budget at 20k. I explained that they have to think of the position they will be in 3-6 years from now when they want another car and they will be upside down with the Cadillac, of course they ended up buying the Cadillac.

One thing I am learning in life is you can only guide people, you can't make decisions for them. JUST like how I will end up buying a tractor despite renting might be a tad cheaper (In my case). Speaking of, back on topic. I have about half an acre of woods to clear out, grade, and put parking/garage there, dig out for a retaining wall, grade, put in a couple hundred feet of drainage, dig quite a few stumps out, mow my grass (I currently pay about $600 a year), dig for electrical conduit to fix lamps up my driveway, dig out something in my yard, plow, and salt in the winter. Not to mention help my dad with many things in his property as he is getting a little old in age. He grew up on a farm and is really excited about me getting a tractor. For me, there are a few more elements other than money involved here. There is a great deal of gratification I get for doing something myself and seeing the results. I just didn't want to be over my *** with the tractor like I am with this side by side. Does this make any sense to anyone else?

Kind of what I was getting it and comparing vehicles to 20 years ago just doesn't work. Although data suggest cars as a whole as in power train wise and quality are actually much better cars and more reliable, the issue comes in as you said is the electronics and the fact that a car has 30-40% more parts than it used to.

Leases come with their own problems if you drive 20k a year, then its going to cost you, also end of the day you are stuck with a payment if you come on hard times.

But with that all said when you look at the equation holistically everything you said is true. I think eventually car ownership is going to die off in a few ways. Leasing is only going to get more prevalent believe its close to 40% as it is. This is a big gander but I think ride sharing is going to transform into car sharing. Uber and others are already experimenting or looking into car sharing, as in you order a car and its dropped off for when you want it. If I look at it from my perspective, we need two cars 5 days a week, we only need most of the time on the weekends, don't need two cars sitting while on vacation etc, realistically I dont need two cars one third of the year, what if that cut my overall payment on one car by a third. Dig even further I really need that second car for roughly 8-9 hours a day, what if I dont have to pay for it for the other 16 hours of the day. This is assuming a lot, but if you look at whats out there changes are coming, you also look at the continual rise of vehicle prices, give it another decade or so, nobody will be buying them any longer.

Purchasing habits in general have changed mainly due to cost. Not a ding to older folks things are simply not the same. For those that are retired and financially set the old way of paying cash etc probably doesnt affect them much because they have the means to do so, but being younger and middle aged the ball game is much different. Although there is some inflation, overall I make a lot more money then my parents did but I look back to the late 80s early 90s growing up and what they paid for things. Roughly 140k for a custom 1600Sqft home, Im in the middle of building now and granted im going bigger, but a 1600 sq ft home would probably cost me close to 250. My parents bought cars for 6-8k and trucks for 10-12, now they are 35-50, gas was 80 cents its now 3 bucks. Wages simply havent kept up and you have buy things differently now days

 

[MaineGuy1]

LOL GUYS!!!!!!!!!!

This got super off topic, but since we are here. I actually have an opinion on the matter. I am a big car guy, had a shop, worked in pro racing many years, fix my own, etc. The problem with purchasing NEWER cars is that they are an ENORMOUS liability. Especially any luxury cars, most new cars have 40+ computers, complex canbus systems, and the more trinkets the more things that fail. You can no longer work on them yourself, and many times when something fails you have to buy brand new at the dealer and have *THEM* recode it to your VIN. The days where you had a reliable car that you could make last are largely over. Ergo, cars have became an enormous liability. They aren't made to last anymore, so the guy who has a car after the lease has a POS that is going to drain his wallet. Go look around at any Chevy Truck from the early 2010's they all have rusting fenders, rockers, and frames; That's not even going into the electronics part of things. The only vehicles I would ever buy are Toyotas or Hondas and it shows in their resale value. Go look at the prices of 3 year old Cadillac's. Also, in the case of expensive luxury vehicles the residuals are often so good that you can lease something for MUCH cheaper than you would buy it. E.g. you can lease a brand new BMW M3 (MSRP ~80k) for $750 a month, LITERALLY, the only thing you pay for is tires and gasoline. They change oil, brakes, etc. This means you can reliably budget without any surprises. You also have no dead weight at the table when you want to get your next car, a trade in is always a bargaining chip for the dealer. "Oh, look at this scratch, this ding, tires are worn, spot here, etc.." I happened to just had this conversation with a friend of the family, they wanted to trade in their Toyota Highlander and buy a Lincon or a Cadillac because they were in their budget at 20k. I explained that they have to think of the position they will be in 3-6 years from now when they want another car and they will be upside down with the Cadillac, of course they ended up buying the Cadillac.

One thing I am learning in life is you can only guide people, you can't make decisions for them. JUST like how I will end up buying a tractor despite renting might be a tad cheaper (In my case). Speaking of, back on topic. I have about half an acre of woods to clear out, grade, and put parking/garage there, dig out for a retaining wall, grade, put in a couple hundred feet of drainage, dig quite a few stumps out, mow my grass (I currently pay about $600 a year), dig for electrical conduit to fix lamps up my driveway, dig out something in my yard, plow, and salt in the winter. Not to mention help my dad with many things in his property as he is getting a little old in age. He grew up on a farm and is really excited about me getting a tractor. For me, there are a few more elements other than money involved here. There is a great deal of gratification I get for doing something myself and seeing the results. I just didn't want to be over my *** with the tractor like I am with this side by side. Does this make any sense to anyone else?

I understand what you are saying about working on older vehicles but the facts are not on your side about longevity. Cars today last longer than the cars from the good ole days.
Cars now last longer than ever -- will yours? - CBS News

 

[borderm3]

Hey guys, I decided to go with a Kubota B2650, the tractors loader operated much better than the Kioti does. For whatever reason it is much easier to mix functions with the Kubota loader, it is also much more responsive than the Kioti loader, unless I really rev up the Kioti. The only downside is that the Kubota's front loader lifts much less on paper than the Kioti. All in all, I feel like this is a good compromise for my needs since the backhoe is what I will use the most.

Another factor was that the Kioti dealer here had only 3 tractors where as the Kubota dealer had about 50. Many Kubota's used with good resale in the area where as Kioti hasn't made a name yet here.

I really wanted to work with the local Kubota dealer as they were very nice, but they said they would be losing money if they dropped the price from msrp and I dind't want to get into that rigmarole with them. So, I called Messick's, which is about two hours from me, they made a good deal off the bat and offered to deliver it free of charge.

Thanks for the help.
Chris

 

[rScotty]

Hey, that's great. It's been a good discussion and sounds like a nifty machine. I've also found that on my Kubota the Kubota loader & backhoe controls are accurate and responsive - in fact, better than on my commercial TLB.
Were you able to get all the accessories you wanted? Any questions there?
rScotty