Age old question.. hire or purchase.

[Cat_Driver]

Hello, guys. Again looking to TBN for advice.

44 years old and own one tractor- a 50's Ford that's dedicated for bush hogging. Acreage I'm responsible for is a minimum of 6 acres, but being my Dad's only Son, possibly up to 160 acres of mixed hardwoods with food plots, log roads, and streams- we both inhabit the same land, so I feel I'm responsible for the upkeep now.

I know that a tractor will always be useful for this kind of property, but here's my situation: The one major project I'm looking at is clearing 40yr old growth from a 5 acre lake bed, to re-establish the lake. Tree size averages 8-10in, and is mostly Yellow poplar; not very dense. I will eventually do this through the hiring of an experienced professional to build the proper dam, grade, and soil work.

If I buy a Kubota M59/62, I can clear this acreage myself, but that leaves zero wiggle room for any other portion of the lake construction. However, if I spend the $30K to get the lake built back, then that money is gone, with nothing to show for it.. After the land clearing is done, not really sure if I'll need something as large as the M59/62??

I don't mind saving money, and don't necessarily have to make a decision NOW, but I feel a bit pressured as I'd love to get this lake built up as my Grandmother is still alive and can remember decades of swimming in that lake, and Dad sure would like to see it get built up as well...


You have $30K in your pocket- do you buy the tractor and save for the remainder of the project over years, or do you give it all to the construction company now?

You left out a few critical benefits to owning.
1) You are able to see the M59/62 after the job for nearly what you paid for it IF you get an amazing purchase deal or trade down for a small loss.
2) After the sale you can then purchase a tractor that you want much smaller.
3) If you do buy two tractors in one year you get to write them off up to 500K in the first year - providing you are a "business" and these are definitely business expenses.

 

[4570Man]

Eddie- my only hesitation on the full size TLB is twofold- the amount of time dedicated to fixing/maintaining older equipment, and that this property has a lot of jeep trails and logging roads that I would like to keep open.

I own a full size TLB. It’s a fairly new model because I wanted to avoid the working on it part. It’s got twice if not more the brute force of the M59. I can’t remove the hoe off mine which means no other rear attachments and the inability to make the machine smaller for tight places. I can’t remove the loader and I don’t have a quick attach front bucket. You can get a quick attach loader bucket on the full size but its a huge cost compared to the M59. Even if the full size had a quick attach loader, implements it won’t destroy are few and far between and expensive. In hind sight I’m not sure that twice the brute force was worth loosing a lot of versatility.

 

[crashz]

I heard digging muck and two streams feeding the lake. I think it might be a challenge for any wheeled machine.

I'm with the few that would hire it out. The time is the hard part. Even with a a few big machines and a couple experienced operators, this may a take a week or two. Scale that down with one operator (experience may vary), weekend time only and one smaller wheeled machine. That could take a long time. Me, I'd get a few contractors onsite, explain what I want, ask how they'd do it, and get a written quote with the items of work on it (clear and grub, muck out lake, grade, dispose of wood and muck, etc). See if you get some quotes that are apples to apples and it gives a real price point to work from (maybe its $20K or $60K). At least you will have a real number to work from and gauge the quality of the local contractors.

 

[fried1765]

I heard digging muck and two streams feeding the lake. I think it might be a challenge for any wheeled machine.

I'm with the few that would hire it out. The time is the hard part. Even with a a few big machines and a couple experienced operators, this may a take a week or two. Scale that down with one operator (experience may vary), weekend time only and one smaller wheeled machine. That could take a long time. Me, I'd get a few contractors onsite, explain what I want, ask how they'd do it, and get a written quote with the items of work on it (clear and grub, muck out lake, grade, dispose of wood and muck, etc). See if you get some quotes that are apples to apples and it gives a real price point to work from (maybe its $20K or $60K). At least you will have a real number to work from and gauge the quality of the local contractors.

^^^^^what he says!

I HATE to pay for having work done that I THINK I can do myself.
Especially THIS kind of stuff, since I am a (non practicing) Civil engineer.
That said: I would get bids/opinions from various sources, and hire the work out.
It will take you years to complete the work that you think you can do in weeks.

If you want your older family members to see/enjoy the finished product, get somebody with BIG equipment to do the job in a few days!
Also,..... make absolutely certain that you will wind up with an impervious clay (?) pond bottom.

 

[USAFpj]

I'm with the few that would hire it out. The time is the hard part.

Yea, I work kind of an odd schedule of 84 on, and 42 off. That's 84 days on...

Sounds like what I have envisioned of taking "a few weeks' to remove 5 acres of growth is not very accurate..

 

[EddieWalker]

Removing is just part of it, getting rid of what you remove can easily double or triple that amount of time you spend clearing the land.

 

[Gary Fowler]

Gary- of all of the research on lake building, I didn't see where leaving stumps was an option. The lake was roughly 5.5ac, and stood for 20 years; was 12ft deep at the deepest. Clay and loam is what makes up a majority of our soil as well.

I'll have to research leaving the stumps, as I just did not ever see that as an option due to possible leaking in those areas. However, its fed by 2 creeks, so leaking shouldn't be an issue..

Well no, you cant leave the stumps that are close to the dam area, but nothing wrong with leaving them that are 30 feet back from the bottom end of the dam. Most tree roots dont reach out more than the diameter of their canopy. When building a pond dam, you should trench the bottom of the dam to at least 3 feet deep to remove any traces of roots that may be there prior to started to add soil. Dig your trench wide enough that you can compact the new clay soil that you will be backfilling with, dont just push in a bunch of loose soil to fill in the trench. All the dam has to be well compacted and any vegetation removed from the dam coverage area prior to starting the fill.

 

[bdog]

Having owned a M59, and a full size Deere backhoe (310SJ) I would not think either one is the best tool for the job. If you owned it already and wanted to complete the task yes either would probably work but slowly. A full size excavator would be my recommendation and with tracks it would get around better on potentially soft ground. Personally I would rent one and get it done but hiring it out if you are not comfortable operating it is not a bad choice. I don’t think you would spend 30k.

 

[Streetcar]

Why was the lake drained. How long was the lake filled
How high will the dam need to be. Is this height regulated by the state.
As other have said TLB is not best tool for clearing land or building a dam

 

[Scook222]

I would get estimates just to see what it would cost for someone else to do it. If it’s what you think is reasonable, let someone else do it and enjoy your time off. If it’s too expensive, I would look at renting a big excavator or dozer to clear the trees and rebuild the dam. Even if you had to clear another 2 or 3 acres to move out the muck and trees, you should be able to complete it by yourself the first time you are off work and all it would cost is equipment rental and fuel. If you qualified for the zero percent, I would get the tractor You thought would best fit the the other tasks you listed and put the money that was left over from the pond up for future projects.