Buying Advice Starting out and need vegetable equipment advice

[jsconner1]

So here's my situation. I have had some success growing vegetables in irrigated plastic the last several years on a small scale (1/2 acre) using mostly borrowed equipment. My dad has an AC 185 and my cousin has a plastic layer and water wheel planter. I'm currently even borrowing my dad's 60" Hustler to mow my yard, which is becoming kind of a pain to haul back and forth every week. I have a friend who runs a fairly successful hot sauce company that wants me to start growing Cayenne peppers for him on a larger scale. I'm looking at putting out 3-5 acres next year if I can get all the equipment and infrastructure in place and hopefully we will be able to grow from there as his business grows.

Here's my basic process: Use a tiller to loosen up the soil to make raised beds, lay the plastic and drip tape, (ideally I keep my rows as close together as equipment will allow, I'm thinking 3 feet edge to edge), I seed the center section to white dutch clover as a cover crop, and then mow it to keep it under control.

Right now my most pressing need is a lawn mower, I have about 2 acres of yard. I have been using my dad's zero turn and don't really want to go back to a normal lawn tractor, but I think it might be better for pulling the seeder, sprayer, and other things, not to mention they are cheaper. In order to be able to use it between the rows of peppers, a 42" deck would be about the largest I could go. While looking at used lawn tractors I learned that some of them like the JD 330 or 420 can handle a 48" tiller which seems like a great idea, but a few problems arise.

1. By the time I get one big enough they seem to all have 50" or larger decks on them.

2. By the time you get the PTO and 3 pt hitch as well as the 48" tiller it seems like I would have more money in it than just buying a decent used riding mower and a 72" tiller to go behind the 185. (One of the used implement places by me has a nice looking Land Pride 72RTR for $3100 I have had my eye on, and I can pick up a good used JD mower for $1000 or so)

3. This isn't a deal breaker but I would prefer a diesel because I like diesels and I only have one gas barrel. Since the 185 and my dad's skid steer are both diesel it would just be nice to keep everything the same.

Am I thinking right? What would you guys do?

Also I need to find a tractor with a creeper gear or a HST for planting the vegetables. We tried to do it with the 185 throttled all the way back last year and my wife and sister looked like Lucy in the chocolate factory except with pepper plants! Any suggestions on that front would be welcome. I've only seen one go on sale near me in the last two years. It went for a steal but unfortunately I didn't have the money to buy it at the time.

Thanks

 

[jeff9366]

You have not told us your total cleared land acreage, beyond two acre yard.
Your location should be part of your T-B-N PROFILE.


Expanding from 1/2 acre to 3 acres or 5 acres is a huge increase. Think productivity.

1) I cannot imagine working 3 acres or 5 acres of vegetables without a Front End Loader on a traditional 4-WD subcompact tractor with HST rather than a Lawn & Garden tractor. You will need to move a lot of compost, soil amendments etc. Husband your energy. Save your back. Purchase a tractor constructed to last. R1/ag tires will give narrowest width.

2) I recommend a soil test with amendment recommendations requested specifically for peppers.

Subcompact tractors are great mowers.



Here is a great web site for small scale commercial vegetable growers:

Buckeye Tractor Online Catalog - Garden Series Page 01

Best of luck in your entrepreneurial venture.




I find it difficult to post solid information without knowing where OP will operate the tractor.

USED TRACTORS - When the OP posts a location, OP is occasionally referred to good used tractors nearby or provided local tractor listings from Craig's List, eBay, TractorHouse, Machinery Pete or other sites.

PRICING - Tractor and implement pricing and dealer service pricing varies a great deal. Lowest prices are usually in the south. Prices along the west coast and in the northeast are usually highest.

SALES TAX - Some states exempt agriculture and forestry equipment from state sales taxes. Florida is one example of liberal ag sales tax exemptions.

IMPLEMENTS - Availability of implements brands are regional, not national. ie: CountyLine, Rural King, etc.

WEATHER - ESPECIALLY SNOW - Blowing snow and mowing are the two tasks that require considerable engine power. If we know an OP is in Buffalo, NY rather than Key West, FL snow needs are apparent.

WEATHER - Large swathes of the country have a continental climate, four seasons, with great temperature variations between winters and summers.
Areas near the coast have varying maritime climates with less variation. Crops usually prefer one or the other weather.

SOIL AND GROWING SEASON - Whether game food plots or market crops, soil and length of growing season(s) is important. Soil type influences tire selection.

ALTIITUDE - Tractors lose 3% of engine power output for every 1,000' altitude increase, over 1,500'. Sometimes twenty posts will be made advising on tractor horsepower, then we find OP is a 6,500 feet altitude and is considering a minimal power, naturally aspirated tractor.

Everyone on T-B-N has a screen name, as anonymous as they like. Other profile information is contributed voluntarily such as age, tractor brand/model and location. Relative to the massive data heists reported for Facebook and other social media sites, this site is nearly anonymous.

 

[aczlan]

Jeff, you might want to re-read the post.
It states that the OP currently has 0.5 acres of garden (hoping to expand to 3.5-5.5 acres) and 2 acres of lawn...
Personally, I would go with either a Kubota B series or a smaller L series tractor for the gardening and a zero turn (or front mount mower) for the mowing.
I would avoid sub compact tractors such as to go to the BX series for what the OP wants to do as they do not have enough ground clearance to handle working the ground when it is wet or there is loose soil.
I would look for something that has at least 25 horsepower preferably 30 as a tiller is going to need around 4-6 horsepower per foot, so a tractor with a 25 horsepower engine should be able to handle a 5 ft tiller with no problems and even a 6 ft tiller if you go a little bit slower.
The other thing that will need to be figured in is the weight of your water wheel planter, you need to make sure that the three point hitch has enough capacity to lift that with some extra.
I would not buy the tractor for this purpose that did not have a loader on it.

Aaron Z

 

[fried1765]

You have not told us your total cleared land acreage, beyond two acre yard.
Your location should be part of your T-B-N PROFILE.


Expanding from 1/2 acre to 3 acres or 5 acres is a huge increase. Think productivity.
I recommend a soil test with amendment recommendations requested specifically for peppers.

I cannot imagine working 3 acres or 5 acres of vegetables without a Front End Loader on a traditional 4-WD subcompact tractor with HST rather than a Lawn & Garden tractor. You are going to want to move a lot of compost, soil amendments etc. Husband your energy. Save your back. Purchase a tractor constructed to last. R1/ag tires will give narrowest width.

Subcompact tractors are great mowers.



Here is a great web site for small scale commercial vegetable growers:

Buckeye Tractor Online Catalog - Garden Series Page 01

Best of luck in your entrepreneurial venture.




I find it difficult to post solid information without knowing where OP will operate the tractor.

USED TRACTORS - When the OP posts a location, OP is occasionally referred to good used tractors nearby or provided local tractor listings from Craig's List, eBay, TractorHouse, Machinery Pete or other sites.

PRICING - Tractor and implement pricing and dealer service pricing varies a great deal. Lowest prices are usually in the south. Prices along the west coast and in the northeast are usually highest.

SALES TAX - Some states exempt agriculture and forestry equipment from state sales taxes. Florida is one example of liberal ag sales tax exemptions.

IMPLEMENTS - Availability of implements brands are regional, not national. ie: CountyLine, Rural King, etc.

WEATHER - ESPECIALLY SNOW - Blowing snow and mowing are the two tasks that require considerable engine power. If we know an OP is in Buffalo, NY rather than Key West, FL snow needs are apparent.

WEATHER - Large swathes of the country have a continental climate, four seasons, with great temperature variations between winters and summers.
Areas near the coast have varying maritime climates.

SOIL AND GROWING SEASON - Whether game food plots or market crops, soil and length of growing season(s) is important. Soil type influences tire selection.

ALTIITUDE - Tractors lose 3% of engine power output for every 1,000' altitude increase, over 1,500' Sometimes twenty posts will be made advising on tractor horsepower, then we find OP is a 6,500 feet altitude and is considering a low power, naturally aspirated tractor.

Everyone on T-B-N has a screen name, as anonymous as they like. Other profile information is contributed voluntarily such as age, tractor brand/model and location. Relative to the massive data heists reported for Facebook and other social media sites, this site is nearly anonymous.

An excellent outline of reasons for showing location in your profile.
Some here on TBN have a siege mentality however, and refuse to participate.
Jeff is 100% correct on this issue!

 

[jeff9366]

ACZLAN: I asked about total cleared land trying to get an idea of why OP is concerned with maintaining 42" rows. Subcompacts are mostly 48" wide with R1/ag tires. If the OP has seven to fifteen clear acres, so wider rows may be acceptable, I concur in your recommendation of a B.

I have never operated a water wheel planter. I seed with a Solo brand chest mount manual seed caster. I will be sowing Sunn Hemp within the hour as a cover crop over land where grass seed failed to germinate during this HOT Florida Spring.

OP's budget is limiting.

I have about 2 acres of yard. I have been using my dad's zero turn and don't really want to go back to a normal lawn tractor, but I think it might be better for pulling the seeder, sprayer, and other things, not to mention they are cheaper. In order to to use it between the rows of peppers, a 42" deck would be about the largest I could go.

I admire your posts.

 

[jsconner1]

Thanks so far guys. I forgot to put in this in because it was late when I was typing the post, but pretty much everything as far as fertilizer is injected into the irrigation water. Anything else that is needed that I can't inject, which hasn't happened yet, I plan on working in to the row from a hopper as I lay the plastic. So while I agree a front end loader is nice, it is isn't an absolute must have. I also do a lot of that work with my Dad's skid steer.

To answer the location question I am in Central Indiana. The soil has a pretty decent amount of clay in it so I know I will need a pretty solid tiller, and I certainly don't have the money to buy new. I took another job to help finance this as it is. I have been working on getting this together for a year now, and half expect that I won't be able to have everything in place for next year, but I'm going to try. I'm glad it didn't work out this year. It would have been a disaster. It's been so wet that no one has anything in the ground yet.

The water wheel has a 200 gal tank on it so if I fill it up thats around 1600 lbs, plus its weight and two people probably figure 2200 lbs max, but I don't have to fill the tank all the way. As far as which kind of tractor to go with I have had such a hard time finding one with an HST that I will probably buy whatever comes up. The other idea I have been playing with is getting an old HST combine without a header. I can pick one up for $1500 because they are all over the place and fabricating the water wheel to run off the front side. I can then set up the hopper to be the water tank, and it's easier because I can see what my planters are doing.

Also, you are right Jeff. I could space out the rows farther, I have 7 tillable acres. And for the first few years it won't be a problem at all to do more than I can handle with a larger spacing. The trouble comes as we grow with thinking long term and I have to move to different ground. With peppers though I have read that it takes Mosaic Virus 3 years to die off in the soil. That isn't a problem yet, but I would think a pretty extensive crop rotation is necessary. Anyway, when you are netting around 50 cents a plant in a good year, it makes you want to fit as many plants as you can per acre.

 

[Tennsawdust]

Thanks so far guys. I forgot to put in this in because it was late when I was typing the post, but pretty much everything as far as fertilizer is injected into the irrigation water. Anything else that is needed that I can't inject, which hasn't happened yet, I plan on working in to the row from a hopper as I lay the plastic. So while I agree a front end loader is nice, it is isn't an absolute must have. I also do a lot of that work with my Dad's skid steer.

To answer the location question I am in Central Indiana. The soil has a pretty decent amount of clay in it so I know I will need a pretty solid tiller, and I certainly don't have the money to buy new. I took another job to help finance this as it is. I have been working on getting this together for a year now, and half expect that I won't be able to have everything in place for next year, but I'm going to try. I'm glad it didn't work out this year. It would have been a disaster. It's been so wet that no one has anything in the ground yet.

The water wheel has a 200 gal tank on it so if I fill it up thats around 1600 lbs, plus its weight and two people probably figure 2200 lbs max, but I don't have to fill the tank all the way. As far as which kind of tractor to go with I have had such a hard time finding one with an HST that I will probably buy whatever comes up. The other idea I have been playing with is getting an old HST combine without a header. I can pick one up for $1500 because they are all over the place and fabricating the water wheel to run off the front side. I can then set up the hopper to be the water tank, and it's easier because I can see what my planters are doing.

Also, you are right Jeff. I could space out the rows farther, I have 7 tillable acres. And for the first few years it won't be a problem at all to do more than I can handle with a larger spacing. The trouble comes as we grow with thinking long term and I have to move to different ground. With peppers though I have read that it takes Mosaic Virus 3 years to die off in the soil. That isn't a problem yet, but I would think a pretty extensive crop rotation is necessary. Anyway, when you are netting around 50 cents a plant in a good year, it makes you want to fit as many plants as you can per acre.

I've run a mechanical transplanter quite a bit behind my MF245. I'm not sure why a utility tractor like that wouldn't work for your purposes? They move pretty slow in low range. One option if you can't find something with a track width narrow enough to suite you is to consider finding something where the track can spread enough to clear two rows. That may cause some trouble laying plastic though.

Good luck with the endeavor. I'm sure you will figure something out.

 

[searcyfarms]

what kind of budget do you have to work with regarding your equipment ? I live in midwest soils and clays here and it takes some HP to run a tiller here. I have an IGN180 tiller, gear drive and it will put a 65hp tractor on its knees if you arent on your game.

Those tillers are great just remember go a couple passes dont try to chew it all up in one pass has been my experience as well as slow is better too. It runs best on my 90HP tractor.

I cant imagine running it on 35hp it would be frustrating, time consuming and hard on something that small.

 

[jsconner1]

I've seen on the forums that a lot of people have said those MF245s work great for that. I just wish I could find one. When I see used tractors around me they are almost all either old fords or JD's with the occasional Allis. My uncle has a D15 that my dad used to set onions when he was in high school, but he won't part with it for anything.

 

[jsconner1]

what kind of budget do you have to work with regarding your equipment ? I live in midwest soils and clays here and it takes some HP to run a tiller here. I have an IGN180 tiller, gear drive and it will put a 65hp tractor on its knees if you arent on your game.

Those tillers are great just remember go a couple passes dont try to chew it all up in one pass has been my experience as well as slow is better too. It runs best on my 90HP tractor.

I cant imagine running it on 35hp it would be frustrating, time consuming and hard on something that small.

Thanks for the advice. I had planned on running it on the AC 185 which is a 70hp tractor. My dad always said to figure about a hp per inch of tillage, but I had looked at the Land pride RTR2572 and they say it will run on a 25 hp tractor. I can't imagine that working well in my soil.

As far as budget, I am just saving money and buying stuff as I find it and have the money. So the cheaper it is the sooner I can buy it, but I also don't want to buy something just because it is cheap in the short term if something more expensive will save me down the road. My day job is flying planes and I do freelance engineering work on the side to pay for the farm. It pays well, but jobs are sporadic.

I guess the problem is I can go one of 2 ways to maximize my plants per acre and I just need to pick one. I can get a 48" tiller and run 3' plastic with 2 rows spaced 18" or I can get a 72" tiller and run 5' plastic with 3 rows. Either way it comes out roughly the same number wise the only difference is which equipment I use.

This has been a really helpful discussion though for me to think through everything. I think what I am leaning towards is just buying a decent 42" lawn tractor for now. Yes, it will take longer, but the wife won't mind. She loves to mow since it is the only time the kids don't bother her. Since she discovered mowing I'm not even allowed to do it anymore! And then looking for ~45 hp tractor with a creeper gear or HST to run a 48" tiller and the water wheel.

Sorry if my posts are rambling, but this has been really good to help me think through everything.