4500P vs 4500Z, any experience to help choose which one?

[skcncx]

Any advice on picking either the 4500P or a 4500Z? I'm about to purchase either a new 4500P or 4500Z (demo unit 11 hours)

Any real noticeable difference for those that have seat time in both?

The 2 big deciding factors for some would be the continuous 30 degree mowing of the 4500P or the larger alternator of the 4500Z (for heated cab, etc.) . Neither are deal breakers for me, hence my dilemma. I'm only using it for 6 acre mowing, 300 ft driveway for snow, landscaping and yard maintenance for residential use over the next several years

Both have the same ratings, lift capacity etc...

4500P
- No choke necessary (maybe better for my wife and father in-law who plan to mow, no choke is a "little" more turn and go.
- Better fuel economy, though only 25%
- Supposedly a little quieter from talking directly to Ventrac, but they said it was negligible. Ear plugs either engine. I've only hear the Z, have no real comparison for P.


4500Z
- 3 cylinder, seems like each has to work a little less hard than the 2 cylinder Kawasaki "P"
- 3.5 ft-lbf higher torque on spec sheet indicate
- seems more popular but I also see the "P" on several of their demo videos.
- 60 amp alternator vs 30 amp on "P"... but that really only matters if you tax the system with all the heated cab and light options, none of which I every will do.

Attachments will be 72" mower, slip scoop, possibly the grapple in future, dozer and one day the broom.

I do plan to get the 3 point hitch, though with no PTO, it's pretty limited.

I'm leaning toward the 4500P with Kawasaki engine. The dealer for this one has been easier to work with, though the deal for the 4500Z demo unit has been ok as well. They just tend to run higher prices for service. Both are local and minutes away which is good.

Thanks for any input!

 

[Chris616]

Welcome to TBN.

I had some comments about the 30 degree slope rating of the 4500P in post #51 of this thread:
https://www.tractorbynet.com/forums...244-advice-mowing-sloped-rough-terrain-6.html

Here are some other threads discussing Ventrac engine options, but consider the dates and whether the discussion relates to the current engines available. I'm unsure if they've changed in the last few years.
https://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/ventrac/382883-ventrac-4500-engine-opinions.html
https://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/ventrac/386280-kubota-gas-vs-kubota-diesel.html
https://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/ventrac/389434-steiner-450-vs-ventrac-4500z.html

They are both good engines. If you don't have another piece of equipment or a vehicle that uses diesel, the 4500P becomes more attractive. I have diesel fuel on hand for a UTV, but still chose the 4500P.

Not sure you'll find anyone who posts on TBN frequently with concurrent experience of operating both engines.

Chris

 

[murphy1244]

Try this group I want a Ventrac one day Public Group | Facebook

 

[skcncx]

Thanks Chris,

I've seen just about every post on this site for the Ventrac and yours that you called out. My max slope is 25 degrees. No diesel for me, just between the 4500Z gas kubota or 4500P Kawasaki.

Oddly, though purely preference, 4500P with fuel injection, better fuel economy, no carb/choke to deal with may be the tipping point.

--Scott

 

[skcncx]

Thanks Murph.

I'll check it out.

I wish I didn't have a choice, analysis paralysis!

 

[Chris616]

Thanks Chris,

I've seen just about every post on this site for the Ventrac and yours that you called out. My max slope is 25 degrees. No diesel for me, just between the 4500Z gas kubota or 4500P Kawasaki.

Oddly, though purely preference, 4500P with fuel injection, better fuel economy, no carb/choke to deal with may be the tipping point.

--Scott

Whoops. Right you are, Scott. It's the 4500Y that is the Kubota diesel. For some reason when I see "Kubota" I just automatically think "diesel", only.

When I asked my Ventrac dealer about the engine options they said that they'd never sold a 4500Z (Kubota gasoline). Now, they are a relatively new dealer, but that was part of what steered me away from the 4500Z. Also, my wife wanted to use the machine, so DFI with no choke makes it simpler for her (hmm...the engine is still fairly warm. Do I use the choke now or not?).

I really just made my decision between diesel (the Kubota 4500Y) or gasoline (the Kawasaki 4500P). I didn't consider the air-cooled engine.

Chris

 

[skcncx]

Yep, my experience with 2 local dealers is that one is only pushing the Z and touts is as so much better than the P and the other says, it's really your pick both are equally capable. No interest in air cooled version either.

My own opinion... the 4500Z, gas kubota for some reason is more preferred (but unsubstantiated) and therefore comes to a mostly opinionated as hands down better. Maybe Kubota is more liked and popular in the tractor world.

They are virtually the same price with same options configured.

I think it's the 4500P for me.

--Scott

 

[Industrial Toys]

I had a Steiner with the Kubota 3 cylinder Gas engine. That is one sweet running Engine. And , I have seen many repowered Steiners but never a gas or diesel Kubota. Yes, i had to fart around with the choke, which I really hate. Surprised they are still carburated.

 

[skcncx]

Thanks for the input regarding the choke. It seems like a petty reason to decide Kawasaki 4500P over the Kubota 4500P, both gas versions, but it would seem to be less of an obstacle for other users who don't want to mess with it. Like a bike, once you get it, it's second nature to manage.

4500P Kawasaki - 2 cylinder, 824cc, 31 HP, 47.1 ft-lbf
4500Z Kubota vs 3, 962 cc, 32.5 HP, 50.6 ft-lbf

I think the spec sheets are partly why the 4500Z Kubota is more popular, but spec sheets aren't the full story.

Take all this with a grain of salt, I have no experience with either. I'm trying to read between the lines on dealers input. I guess the one I get will be the right one. Likely 4500P for now.

 

[johara1]

One other thing nobody talks about is that warranty on the 4500P is 3 years verses 2 years on the Kabotas...... fuel consumption is way less on the 4500P with in a .1 of a gph. more than the diesel...... jim

 

[skcncx]

I noticed the longer warranty as well. While 3rd year is major parts only, that is one year longer for the 4500P. Though, it appears residential is 3 years either way but with all things, that may not include the engine. My luck is the part the breaks is somehow not covered.

The dealer i'm working doesn't push either 4500P or 4500Z any more than the other believes the 25% better fuel consumption specified for 4500P at 1.2 gal/hr, vs the 4500Z 1.5 gal/hr is on the conservative end. For less taxing work loads it could be as high as 40% better.

--Scott

 

[Industrial Toys]

If you need warranty in two or three years it's probably only because it's junk. I think the Kubota engine is basically the Diesel block and to me, that would mean a lot. I could be completely wrong on that. I have eight or so Kubota Engines and just love them.

 

[skcncx]

Agree, prefer to just buy quality, regardless of warranty or not.

No experience with a Kubota engine, but there is certainly a reason why they are preferred. Same with Kawasaki, they are quite prevalent in the mower market and good quality. Had a 17 HP Kawasaki v-twin on a zero turn and really liked it.

 

[Industrial Toys]

Again, not an expert. I'm guessing that the Kawi is a more "Refined" engine, but that's not a reason, I personally would opt in favour of it. I kind of wish I had not gotten rid of that gas/kubota steiner.

 

[skcncx]

Thanks for the input and feedback.

I ended up writing the check for the 4500P with the KAWASAKI FD851D engine this afternoon. 4500Z Kubota is only critical for heated cab and more electrical power hungry accessories since it has the larger 60 AM alternator. I'll never need it.

Should arrive in a week or two.

I added the 3 point hitch, suspension seat, dual front hydraulics and a horn (just for fun). I would have added the 12 volt for front but I had to stop somewhere and less likely to use it, only a few attachments need it and easy to add later on.

As far as warranty, every engine and attachment has a 2 year unlimited hour warranty. The 3 year for residential was eliminated early 2019.

--Scott

 

[Chris616]

Thanks for the input and feedback.

I ended up writing the check for the 4500P with the KAWASAKI FD851D engine this afternoon.

I hope that you'll be as pleased with your new purchase as I have been with mine, Scott.

You've been researching on TBN, so you may have already seen this issue which seems to have happened to quite a few of us. Forewarned is forearmed!
https://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/ventrac/411180-rear-mounted-winch.html?highlight=

Chris

 

[Industrial Toys]

That's Funny. Yes, the fun of articulated machines. I have had that happen both blowing and mowing with my Steiner. Sometimes you can apply down pressure with the front implemant and walk yourself out of your predicament. Often, I have to get a loader, or just a lever style chain hoist and strap. Usually a pain, for lost production.

 

[zmountaineer]

I have a 4500z. I wanted as much engine power/torque as I could get. I saw a video that ventrac put out basically racing all the different models up a hill and the Z beat them all. I have some steep hills and I nearly run out of power on them so I am glad I went with the one I did.

 

[prs]

You will be happy with the P. You would have been happy with the Z. The Z with programmed FI would be a DREAM.

 

[skcncx]

Sure will. Really can't go wrong. Even the diesel, on spec sheet has the least torque and hp, but it's used all the time and no slouch.

My only hesitancy with the Kawasaki 4500P was the smaller alternator, but I'll never need it in reality. I'll never go propane and even if I was given a cab and hooked up all the extra lights and heat options requiring the larger alternator it would be too cumbersome to store for the 2-3 months in the winter I'd use it.

Now I'm on the hunt for attachments, used, new, rebuilt, whatever. Until then, it doesn't do me much good. My local dealer discounts aggressively, so in some cases new prices are within a few hundred dollars of used. Even a local fabricator builds new dozer blades and buckets that fit ventrac and steiner for less than some are asking for used. I was at a local auction that had some steiner attachments and the bucket I was interested in that went for $1150. I just don't get that, I can pick up a power bucket from the dealer brand new for $1200... excitement of the auction I guess.