Bears and pistols

[Jchonline]

No personal experience, but Tom Gresham (Gun Talk) recommends .44 magnum, .454 Casul or similar with hard lead cast bullets for deep penetration. You do not want expanding hollow point bullets for such a big critter. I am amazed that the 9mm was 4 for 4.

Shots on target are most important. Also solid brass is preferred over lead. Check these out.

 

[k0ua]

An hour after boar incident discovered I had holstered my Colt Govt Model with a round in the chamber and hammer still cocked. (adrenaline)

Not good, and I assume you did not put on the Side safety, but at least you still had 3 things to go to make it go boom. Gun in holster, so trigger guard covered, no finger on trigger, and grip safety not engaged.. So not as dangerous as you might first think.

 

[jgedmond]

Shots on target are most important. Also solid brass is preferred over lead. Check these out.

Cool, have not seen those before. Agree that shot placement is crucial.

FYI, my understanding is that "hard cast lead" is different than "lead" in that it is alloyed to make it significantly harder, that is , more resistant to deformation.

 

[k0ua]

Cool, have not seen those before. Agree that shot placement is crucial.

FYI, my understanding is that "hard cast lead" is different than "lead" in that it is alloyed to make it significantly harder, that is , more resistant to deformation.

That, and hard cast lead also can be driven faster without leading the bore as much. And velocity is important for increasing muzzle energy.

"Although both mass and velocity contribute to the muzzle energy, the muzzle energy is proportional to the mass while proportional to the square of the velocity. The velocity of the bullet is a more important determinant of muzzle energy. For a constant velocity, if the mass is doubled, the energy is doubled; however, for a constant mass, if the velocity is doubled, the muzzle energy increases four times."


Although gun guys have been arguing muzzle velocity vs bullet weight for a long time. But the formula is the formula Me=1/2 Mass x Velocity squared.
Meplat (frontal bearing surface area) also plays a role in tissue destruction. I would not try to run from a bear, they can run faster than I can, and they sure as heck climb trees better than I can. But some nice hard cast Buffalo Bore 300 grainers in my .44 magnum would put down any bruin that walks the face of this planet if the shots are placed correctly. All that said, would I rather have a .338 Win Mag? Yeah I would. I would even rather have a 12 gauge loaded with slugs, but you gotta fight with what you have. If I had a 9mm loaded with FMJ ammo.. well, it might be "nip and tuck", but I still ain't running.

 

[oosik]

I have unfortunately witnessed three bear attacks. One enraged Grizzly & two black bears. The Griz caught, mauled and killed a hiker. This was accomplished even though the bear had three chest shots from a 44 magnum. He was dispatched with a big bore rifle.

It's a really frightening thing to watch - a large omnivore maul and kill a human. Once the bear is fully engaged with the human - further shots are not recommended. Things are happening so fast. The sounds of bones being broken - an entire human skull being crushed with one bite. And blood - my God, blood is flying everywhere. The only saving grace - death was almost instantaneous.

Believe me - avoidance is far superior to mixing it up with an angry bear.

 

[Jchonline]

I have unfortunately witnessed three bear attacks. One enraged Grizzly & two black bears. The Griz caught, mauled and killed a hiker. This was accomplished even though the bear had three chest shots from a 44 magnum. He was dispatched with a big bore rifle.

It's a really frightening thing to watch - a large omnivore maul and kill a human. Once the bear is fully engaged with the human - further shots are not recommended. Things are happening so fast. The sounds of bones being broken - an entire human skull being crushed with one bite. And blood - my God, blood is flying everywhere. The only saving grace - death was almost instantaneous.

Believe me - avoidance is far superior to mixing it up with an angry bear.

Well stated from an experienced person to live in Bear country. It is a fight for survival, not a brawl. No level playing field...your main weapon is your mind, and it is really hard to think in a situation like that. The firearm is not failsafe security...it is a last resort for survival if you are given the opportunity.

 

[atsah]

I don't agree. I saw a .357 put down a big brown in 2 shots. I would wager a bet that .357 has far more penetration than buckshot. I would think Buck Shot would only serve to piss off a bear even more as the wounds are superficial. Logic says you need to hit vital organs and not put flesh wounds on him...

I think they use the shotgun for the blast effect more than anything.. 44mag, 460, 500 would be my choice.. Of course you can give about anyone a 12GA with buckshot and they "should" be able to at least hit a bear with a couple and the blast would probably send the bear into another direction, maybe...

 

[drssg]

That’s an interesting article and follow up discussion. I don’t have experience with bears, and I’m surprised to learn that they can get into such a “fight to the death” mode. I would have thought that even a non-fatal gunshot wound would be enough to cause them to retreat.

 

[ruffdog]

I once had a nasty feral cat get into the "fight to the death" mode with me. I always wondered if that thing had rabies. I sure wouldn't want to meet a 900lb version of it!

 

[oosik]

I've seen a 160 pound black bear have his entire chest blown wide open with a single blast from a 12 gauge. I think he was dead - momentum kept him still coming. I've also seen what it does to two small children to watch their father caught, mauled and killed by a Grizzly. The little girl did not/could not speak for three months. The little boy refused to leave their house.

What we( yes, I was on this trek. Four adults + two children) did wrong. Hiking along the trail - MAKING NO NOISE. We learned - when in the bush - make noise. Let them know you are there - that you are coming down the trail. We had wakened a snoozing Grizzly. He was about 50 feet off the trail. Sleeping in a thicket of High Bush Cranberries. A small cast iron fry pan & a stout stick. Now-a-days they make electronic devices - duplicates this sound - clip on your belt.

Atsah - it's not so much the caliber or size. Few people understand how big a real bear looks and how incredibly fast they can move. Fewer still are prepared and have any experience/training. You must INSTANTLY overcome your fear and "frozen stiff" reaction. It's one thing to discuss it on a social web site - a completely different matter to experience it. It is DEFINITELY NOT a brawl - it is a FIGHT FOR YOUR VERY LIFE. You are facing a wild animal in his home terrain - you are simply the visitor.