Traction Steering wheel alignment

[rScotty]

Kind of what I figured. Just had not even thought about it.

I'm the same way....never really thought about it. But now that I have, I believe that I would have noticed if the knob ended up in a different position. So I think that on my Kubota the steering wheel always ends up in the same place.....And I believe our JD does the same.
rScotty

 

[4570Man]

I'm the same way....never really thought about it. But now that I have, I believe that I would have noticed if the knob ended up in a different position. So I think that on my Kubota the steering wheel always ends up in the same place.....And I believe our JD does the same.
rScotty

I’m pretty sure the M59 is hydraulic and the wheel will drift. I’ll try to check mine. I don’t remember if my 310 drifted or not. It steered so I never paid much attention to it.

 

[rScotty]

I’m pretty sure the M59 is hydraulic and the wheel will drift. I’ll try to check mine. I don’t remember if my 310 drifted or not. It steered so I never paid much attention to it.

Now my curiosity is up. I'm going to fire both of them up tomorrow - the Kubota M59 and the JD 310 as well. Here the temps are expected to be in the 70s! And then we'll know.
Shucks, for that matter now I'm wondering about our Ford truck and the SUV. Going to check those as well.
rScotty

 

[4570Man]

Now my curiosity is up. I'm going to fire both of them up tomorrow - the Kubota M59 and the JD 310 as well. Here the temps are expected to be in the 70s! And then we'll know.
Shucks, for that matter now I'm wondering about our Ford truck and the SUV. Going to check those as well.
rScotty

I don’t think your vehicles will drift. I’ve never had one that did.

 

[aczlan]

I don’t think your vehicles will drift. I’ve never had one that did.

On-road vehicles have a mechanical linkage and will not wander. Most any tractor that has a hydraulic cylinder as the only connection to steer the wheels will drift at least a little.

Aaron Z

 

[redman135]

Mmm, this thread got me thinking,

Just a question, what happens on fully hydrostatic steering if the engine dies while descending a hill with turns?
Will the orbital valve still provide hydraulic pressure to the ram and therefore wheels If you turn the steering wheel ?

If not, that would seem to be a small (safety feature) of mechanical steering with hydraulic assistance versus Full hydrostatic steering.

sd455dan I am not sure what sort of steeering a JD 6920 has but when the engine dies on a steep hillside you have no steering at all and no brakes. Just to make it interesting the handbrake didn't work on this one either. Fortunately I was turning so just rolled backward into the fence.

 

[Tx Jim]

Now my curiosity is up. I'm going to fire both of them up tomorrow - the Kubota M59 and the JD 310 as well. Here the temps are expected to be in the 70s! And then we'll know.
Shucks, for that matter now I'm wondering about our Ford truck and the SUV. Going to check those as well.
rScotty

If your JD 310 is below serial number 237998 it will have mechanical linkage on steering so it can't drift. After that posted SN 310 has hydrostatic steering which could drift.

 

[Texasmark]

My feeling is that the position of the wheel, when you turn the engine off, determines the position when restarting. With that thought, I have repositioned my spinner where I wanted it before starting the engine, yes it takes a bit of pressure on your part, and that works. Other thing that works is if it moves on you due to some turning you did while in motion, I put it into a lock, in the direction I want it to move, for a few seconds and turn it loose, back to where I was going, and it repositions the wheel. Keep doing it till it gets back to where you want it.

Yes you have to get used to it, and yes if you get used to running your open hand around the top of the wheel to "find" the spinner that works too. It is a bit of a PIA but I'll take it over other methods, especially "manual" steering. I really would be at a loss on my 2400 if I hadn't installed a spinner.

 

[4570Man]

My feeling is that the position of the wheel, when you turn the engine off, determines the position when restarting. With that thought, I have repositioned my spinner where I wanted it before starting the engine, yes it takes a bit of pressure on your part, and that works. Other thing that works is if it moves on you due to some turning you did while in motion, I put it into a lock, in the direction I want it to move, for a few seconds and turn it loose, back to where I was going, and it repositions the wheel. Keep doing it till it gets back to where you want it.

Yes you have to get used to it, and yes if you get used to running your open hand around the top of the wheel to "find" the spinner that works too. It is a bit of a PIA but I'll take it over other methods, especially "manual" steering. I really would be at a loss on my 2400 if I hadn't installed a spinner.

It makes no difference where you stop and start the engine. It drifts when you try turning against a load like what a big load on the FEL or continue turning against the bump stops.

 

[TractorGuy]

Yep, hydraulic steering via a motor on the wheel and an operating cylinder at the axle is a different kind of animal.

The operating cylinder on my NH backhoe has seals leaking by inside to the point I can literally spin the steering wheel indefinitely after the wheels are turned to lock. I need to rebuild it one day but it was like that when I got it and hasn't gotten any worst. My JD steering wheel usually comes back pretty close to the same position at center.

Spinners are a matter of preference but having one that doesn't rest in the same spot would bug me. I don't use them on either of my tractors. I drove my neighbor's Kubota yesterday and it has a spinner that is never in the same spot with the wheels centered. Neither of my tractors take that much effort to palm the wheel when I need to turn it fast so I will stick with that method.

 

[ruffdog]

Don't confuse hydraulic steering to hydraulic assisted mechanical steering. Also, with hydraulic steering, the pump and cylinders could leak allowing the wheel to always turn. I helped a farmer bale hay and I drove a tractor with a leaky steering system. On a side slope, you would have to slowly keep turning the wheel up hill just to go straight.

 

[rScotty]

I worked the Kubota M59 today moving some dirt & snow. What I found was that when the wheels are pointing straight ahead the spinner is always in the 9 o'clock position. It doesn't make any difference where the wheels were pointing when the engine is turned off or what the steering has been doing. Straight ahead always has the knob at the same position. It doesn't drift.

In their workshop manual, Kubota refers to this as "full hydrostatic steering".

For the mechanical guys and gals:
There is no drag link or any mechanical connection leading from the steering box up to the front axle. Instead, there are hydraulic lines leading forward from the steering control box at the bottom of the steering column which go to a single large cylinder mounted parallel to the front axle. Extending from each end of this steering cylinder are left and right hydraulic rams. These rams work through typical ball joints to turn the front wheels. The power steering system has it's own dedicated pump. The cylinder and rams are protected with heavy steel skid plates & bumpers.

With the engine running, the steering is light and positive in spite of wide industrial tires and a full bucket (max bucket load on the M59 is around 4000 lbs). The steering is just one more nice feature of this tractor.

When the engine is not running, the steering is about like an old fashioned non-power steering type. It steers OK and accurately, but requires some effort. In fact, LOTS of of effort if not moving with a load in the bucket.
rScotty

 

[zzvyb6]

If this steering situation really bugs you, mount a rack & pinion steering gear from a small car up front and direct connect the steering column to it. As previously stated, this is not hydraulic assisted steering, but pure hydraulic directed control. In a car or truck, there is a small mechanical connection between the input pinion shaft and the pinion gear. This "T-Bar" [ torsion bar] has a rotary valve on the end of it. In fact, the valve body has mechanical stops on it to prevent relative rotation by more than a few degrees. When the T-bar twists because of steering loads, the valve opens and oil flow is diverted from bypass (open center) mode to the rack assist piston. Same basic principle on heavy cars and trucks which use a recirculating ball type of power gear. You should be able to use the same pump and lines to hook it up. Packaging should not be a problem, just clamp it to the front axle. Tack weld the existing valve in the column or put in a new one. Make sure you get the plumbing right [ right turn torque produces a right tun assist ]. When the steering torque is reduced, the valve closes and you go where you want to head towards. Should not need a new pump unless it is pressure demand. Cars and trucks use approximately constant flow systems and about 100 psi max pressure is available at initial turn in.