Error code 008 NX4510

[JoelD]

I’ve never heard of such a think? Paying for “warranty” work and being reimbursed? That’s ridiculous. May make sense if no cost to you and time permitting to start whatever legal process you can with Kioti now to pursue refund, as they already have your money. If I understand correctly, you paid money?

 

[JimR]

I致e never heard of such a think? Paying for 努arranty work and being reimbursed? That痴 ridiculous. May make sense if no cost to you and time permitting to start whatever legal process you can with Kioti now to pursue refund, as they already have your money. If I understand correctly, you paid money?

I agree with you. The dealer told me up front about this because he wants to make sure that he gets paid. My impression is that Kioti is cheap and doesn't like to pay for repairs.

 

[RandyT]

I’ve never heard of such a think? Paying for “warranty” work and being reimbursed? That’s ridiculous. May make sense if no cost to you and time permitting to start whatever legal process you can with Kioti now to pursue refund, as they already have your money. If I understand correctly, you paid money?

Actually the practice is becoming very common. As a lawn mower tech for the past 22 years, the small engine manufacturers now recommend that dealers collect a deposit before working on possible warranty issues. I charge $50 for push mower engines and $100 for rider engines that have, as the customer states has locked up or now has a hole in the side of the block. Just too many cases of customers not adding oil or doing something that cause the engine failure. I have to remove, disassemble the engine, take pictures of every bearing surface inside the engine and upload those pictures for warranty consideration, and if they decide that the failure is not warranty I don't get paid for even the time to diagnose for possible warranty.

 

[JimR]

Actually the practice is becoming very common. As a lawn mower tech for the past 22 years, the small engine manufacturers now recommend that dealers collect a deposit before working on possible warranty issues. I charge $50 for push mower engines and $100 for rider engines that have, as the customer states has locked up or now has a hole in the side of the block. Just too many cases of customers not adding oil or doing something that cause the engine failure. I have to remove, disassemble the engine, take pictures of every bearing surface inside the engine and upload those pictures for warranty consideration, and if they decide that the failure is not warranty I don't get paid for even the time to diagnose for possible warranty.

I can fully understand that practice because nobody can afford to work for free.

 

[BrkMstr]

I believe you had said he was not the selling dealer - If so I would assume he was concerned as he had no profit on the original sale to fall back on in case Kioti gave him a hard time - rule of thumb is no manufacture wants to pay - they are like insurance pay outs, hold back all you can, discuss - require more proof - hold back - require etc, eventually pay off a few dollars less, walk in to the board meeting felling good that you save the company money, what's right / honest doesn't seem to enter the pitcher anymore - all this takes time and effort from the dealer / repair facility who has already paid the operational cost out of pocket - most dealers simply are not in the position to sit on that out of pocket - so I can understand it, but it does not make it right.....

 

[JimR]

I believe you had said he was not the selling dealer - If so I would assume he was concerned as he had no profit on the original sale to fall back on in case Kioti gave him a hard time - rule of thumb is no manufacture wants to pay - they are like insurance pay outs, hold back all you can, discuss - require more proof - hold back - require etc, eventually pay off a few dollars less, walk in to the board meeting felling good that you save the company money, what's right / honest doesn't seem to enter the pitcher anymore - all this takes time and effort from the dealer / repair facility who has already paid the operational cost out of pocket - most dealers simply are not in the position to sit on that out of pocket - so I can understand it, but it does not make it right.....

You are correct, he is not the selling dealer of this tractor. I can justify his actions. What I can't justify is Kioti's ability to okay a procedure, all well knowing that it is under warranty, but no pay for the diagnostics or labor to get the job done. That in my opinion is illegal business practices. Just imagine your car dealer doing this to you. I bought my truck at a distant dealer because he had what I wanted in stock and for a price that nobody else could or would match. That price couldn't be met by my nephew that worked at another dealership back then. I bring it to a local dealership for all the recalls and I get my parts that I have needed including the bed liner from them. When my front tires were wearing unevenly they aligned it for free.

 

[RandyT]

You are correct, he is not the selling dealer of this tractor. I can justify his actions. What I can't justify is Kioti's ability to okay a procedure, all well knowing that it is under warranty, but no pay for the diagnostics or labor to get the job done. That in my opinion is illegal business practices. Just imagine your car dealer doing this to you. I bought my truck at a distant dealer because he had what I wanted in stock and for a price that nobody else could or would match. That price couldn't be met by my nephew that worked at another dealership back then. I bring it to a local dealership for all the recalls and I get my parts that I have needed including the bed liner from them. When my front tires were wearing unevenly they aligned it for free.

Just because a company wanted some part or test performed doesn't mean they will cover it when the dealer files the actual warranty claim. With a lot of manufacturers diagnostics time is not reimbursed by the manufacturer. Even when a dealer obtains a warranty repair authorization number from his warranty contact at the manufacturer the warranty repair can still be denied when it is submitted for payment. Dealers may or may not get paid for diagnostics time, extra labor time beyond flat rate or shop supplies, parts may be reimbursed to the dealer at cost, or he could be paid list price.

 

[Threepoint]

My dealer told me that I may get stuck with the labor costs if Kioti decides not to pay for it. That's okay because I will just go to my local Court House and file a lawsuit against them for failure to abide by their own emissions warranty. I have read the warranty and it says that all parts, labor and diagnostics are covered.

Yes, Kioti reimburses the dealer and he pays me back. It says this right on the Bill's. I wonder just how many people have been taken over the coals with this process that I consider to be illegal.

Sounds like you've already paid the dealer for the $2,150.00 in labor. :shocked: If so, then even if Kioti eventually pays the entire claim under warranty, the effect is that you've extended credit to the dealer in the first instance, and to Kioti indirectly. That's an added pre-condition to Kioti's obligations that is not stated in the written warranty. At the least, there is a cost to you in that, but depending on the financial circumstances of the tractor owner at the time, it could actually be a real roadblock to getting the repairs done in the first place!

A couple of additional thoughts, since you mention that you would plan to file a lawsuit if Kioti disallows the warranty claim. First, there is an arbitration clause in the Kioti warranty. I would expect Kioti (and any manufacturer, for that matter) to try to rely on that if you did go to court, presumably small claims court in this case. Secondly, since you were told that only the servicing dealer can submit the warranty claim, and especially if you've already paid the dealer, seems to me the dealer will be a "necessary and indispensable party" to the suit. If so, you'd probably need to name the dealer as a co-defendant. I expect Kioti will do the right thing and cover the submitted claim in full, but if they don't (and you already may intend to do this), I would sure talk with a local attorney about your options before going to the courthouse. :scratchchin:

My personal experience with warranty work on my NX has been very limited, but definitely dramatic, and very good. At around 225 hrs, a freak failure of a bearing cap bolt caused the engine to throw a rod out the starter motor port just as the tech was pulling the tractor into the service bay to diagnose the knock. Kioti asked for photos, and within four days after getting them a new engine was sitting on a pallet in the service bay waiting to be installed. No expense to me, other than haul to and from the dealer.

 

[JimR]

Sounds like you've already paid the dealer for the $2,150.00 in labor. :shocked: If so, then even if Kioti eventually pays the entire claim under warranty, the effect is that you've extended credit to the dealer in the first instance, and to Kioti indirectly. That's an added pre-condition to Kioti's obligations that is not stated in the written warranty. At the least, there is a cost to you in that, but depending on the financial circumstances of the tractor owner at the time, it could actually be a real roadblock to getting the repairs done in the first place!

A couple of additional thoughts, since you mention that you would plan to file a lawsuit if Kioti disallows the warranty claim. First, there is an arbitration clause in the Kioti warranty. I would expect Kioti (and any manufacturer, for that matter) to try to rely on that if you did go to court, presumably small claims court in this case. Secondly, since you were told that only the servicing dealer can submit the warranty claim, and especially if you've already paid the dealer, seems to me the dealer will be a "necessary and indispensable party" to the suit. If so, you'd probably need to name the dealer as a co-defendant. I expect Kioti will do the right thing and cover the submitted claim in full, but if they don't (and you already may intend to do this), I would sure talk with a local attorney about your options before going to the courthouse. :scratchchin:

My personal experience with warranty work on my NX has been very limited, but definitely dramatic, and very good. At around 225 hrs, a freak failure of a bearing cap bolt caused the engine to throw a rod out the starter motor port just as the tech was pulling the tractor into the service bay to diagnose the knock. Kioti asked for photos, and within four days after getting them a new engine was sitting on a pallet in the service bay waiting to be installed. No expense to me, other than haul to and from the dealer.

Now that is what I call service. My dealer wouldn't let my tractor be released to me unless I paid him for the repairs. I could have just as easily said "FINE" submit your paperwork to Kioti and we can see if they will pay of not. Doing that each time it was there would have dragged this ongoing problem out even longer than it already has been. My guess is that it would have taken weeks for each time the dealer submitted paperwork. He doesn't get paid for that either by the way. He told me that the other day. On another comment made by somebody else about warranty work. I used to work at a Ford Dealership. The service manager used to send in requests before we did warranty work. If it was okayed then we did the job. Many times we just did it and it was submitted afterwards. All the used failed parts were put out in a container for return if Ford wanted them. Most of the time they were just scrapped because Ford didn't want them back.

 

[RandyT]

It sounds like the servicing dealer is worried about being paid by Kioti. I hope they are not thinking of saying the bill was this much but Kioti only paid this amount. If they try that trick you would have legal grounds to go against the dealer.