Heating. Propane vs Electric vs Wood Pellet

[Sawyer Rob]

There is no such thing as free field corn no matter how many times it is mentioned.
The reality is someone else is paying to heat your house. Whether you choose to let that person do that on an ongoing basis is a personal choice. I have always preferred to pay my own bills.

That is my perception.

That's my perception too!

Every time he said it, that's what I was thinking.

SR

 

[shooterdon]

Dang it, had my response all typed out and then lost it....

I burned wood for many years. Enjoyed it. Owned the timber so I've never bought a single piece of wood for burning purposes.

So using your example above, you spend $500 per yr to purchase your wood and then have to process it. You've purchased an additional $2K in equipment that you expect to use for 10 years so there's an additional $200 per yr. We won't even touch the operational costs of your equipment. There are many members on here that will tell you they heat their homes for less than that each year without handling any wood. And we haven't even touched what you spend each year in propane which you obviously use or you wouldn't have updated your furnace.

I'll stand by my statement about wood not being efficient. If you analyze the BTUs of heating product you produce versus the BTUs of heat you utilize in your home and compare that ratio to modern heat systems you'll find wood heat is not efficient.

Various heating systems are now producing incredible results in regards to their efficiency. An example would be the chimney on your newly upgraded propane furnace and what it's made out of? If you purchased an energy efficient system it's using plastic pipe for a chimney. Mine uses a 2" rigid plastic pipe. What does your wood stove use?

So again, we are back to perceptions. I would never claim to tell someone what they should heat with. Just as there are many varieties of "perceptions", there are many varieties of "heat systems".

I am not fooled very often by "perceptions".

I do not care about efficiency, I care about costs.

Let me make it simple: is 98% of energy that costs $15.30 per 1M BTU more "efficient" than 60% of energy that costs $4.75 per 1M BTU?
Let's do the math....to generate 125M BTU's I need to heat my home:

My wood insert is about 60% efficient and I get 22M BTU's per cord. Cost including consumables is $105 per cord. That works out to $995 per year if I use wood alone. Capital cost of equipment (Grapple, totes, splitter $3000)...and still worth 50% after 20 years.

My Propane furnace is 98% efficient. $1.40/gal and 91,500 BTU per gallon. If I use 100% propane, cost will be $1951. Cost was $4000 and has little value after 20 years

I use 60% wood and 40% propane so my cost is $1375/year. My capital cost over 20 years will be $5500.

Using your energy costs and the efficiency of your equipment, what would it cost to supply 125M BTU of heat. Then, let me know how much your "efficient" electrical equipment costs and its value after 20 years BTW, my electrical costs are $.11/kwh...if that is less expensive than yours, you can use that number so we can compare apples to apples. BTW, I need a unit with over 400% efficiency to match the cost of burning wood BTU to BTU...with my electrical costs.

Then we can stop discussing "perceptions" and have numbers to deal with.

 

[Oaktree]

Various heating systems are now producing incredible results in regards to their efficiency. An example would be the chimney on your newly upgraded propane furnace and what it's made out of? If you purchased an energy efficient system it's using plastic pipe for a chimney. Mine uses a 2" rigid plastic pipe. What does your wood stove use?

So again, we are back to perceptions. I would never claim to tell someone what they should heat with.

Sounds like you just did.
Your wood vs propane argument is apples vs oranges. Most of us who heat with wood do so because of a ready supply at a reasonable price. If you're a suburbanite who has to buy it cut and split for $350+/cord, no it doesn't make sense as anything but a backup source or for the ambience. But propane is a commodity too, subject to supply and demand and potential shortages. And you're stuck...that super efficient propane furnace won't burn anything else. Chances are if you have a woodstove you can scrounge up something if you live in the country, even if it's crappy wood like poplar or some coniferous wood.

Again, it all comes down to price, availability and how much work you want to put into heating your house. Propane is very pricey in this part of the country, and as such is not the best choice for heat. If it's a bargain where you live, go for it.

 

[ovrszd]

My electric usage increased with my geo units. I doubt anyone is running one for $30 a month.

I agree. Internet claims go beyond logic sometimes.

 

[ovrszd]

There is no such thing as free field corn no matter how many times it is mentioned.
The reality is someone else is paying to heat your house. Whether you choose to let that person do that on an ongoing basis is a personal choice. I have always preferred to pay my own bills.

That is my perception.

Dang it, wish I would have said that.

 

[ovrszd]

I am not fooled very often by "perceptions".

I do not care about efficiency, I care about costs.

Let me make it simple: is 98% of energy that costs $15.30 per 1M BTU more "efficient" than 60% of energy that costs $4.75 per 1M BTU?
Let's do the math....to generate 125M BTU's I need to heat my home:

My wood insert is about 60% efficient and I get 22M BTU's per cord. Cost including consumables is $105 per cord. That works out to $995 per year if I use wood alone. Capital cost of equipment (Grapple, totes, splitter $3000)...and still worth 50% after 20 years.

My Propane furnace is 98% efficient. $1.40/gal and 91,500 BTU per gallon. If I use 100% propane, cost will be $1951. Cost was $4000 and has little value after 20 years

I use 60% wood and 40% propane so my cost is $1375/year. My capital cost over 20 years will be $5500.

Using your energy costs and the efficiency of your equipment, what would it cost to supply 125M BTU of heat. Then, let me know how much your "efficient" electrical equipment costs and its value after 20 years BTW, my electrical costs are $.11/kwh...if that is less expensive than yours, you can use that number so we can compare apples to apples. BTW, I need a unit with over 400% efficiency to match the cost of burning wood BTU to BTU...with my electrical costs.

Then we can stop discussing "perceptions" and have numbers to deal with.

Not trying to argue. At all.

Anyone can adjust any discussion to fit their perception of what's most efficient. That's my point.

Everyone's "equation" has different input.

If you feel comfortable with what you are doing, by all means continue.

I only object when someone says "their way" is so much more efficient than "anyone else's" way.

Then perception comes storming into the discussion guns blazing!!!

 

[ovrszd]

Sounds like you just did.
Your wood vs propane argument is apples vs oranges. Most of us who heat with wood do so because of a ready supply at a reasonable price. If you're a suburbanite who has to buy it cut and split for $350+/cord, no it doesn't make sense as anything but a backup source or for the ambience. But propane is a commodity too, subject to supply and demand and potential shortages. And you're stuck...that super efficient propane furnace won't burn anything else. Chances are if you have a woodstove you can scrounge up something if you live in the country, even if it's crappy wood like poplar or some coniferous wood.

Again, it all comes down to price, availability and how much work you want to put into heating your house. Propane is very pricey in this part of the country, and as such is not the best choice for heat. If it's a bargain where you live, go for it.

See how divisive this discussion is?? Everyone wants to claim their way is the highway!!!! I have not one single time said that!!! If you think I did, prove it?? I don't care what you heat with. I don't care what anyone heats with. I only enter these discussions to make the point that "claims" are rarely inclusive and/or accurate.

It's all about perception.

 

[shooterdon]

Well ovrszd, for a guy from the “show me state” you cannot seem to justify your perceptions with facts.

My assumption is that you have the intelligence to crank out the numbers....and after doing so found your perceptions were just that....perceptions.

Nothing wrong with whatever people want to use if it suits them. But it is offensive to dismiss what other people do as being based on “perceptions” when a reasonably intelligent person can run the numbers. The real shame is some cannot do the math and are lead astray by those with “perceptions”. If you are too old, or too lazy, or too busy to use wood....nothing wrong with that...but do not tell us it is not cost effective. I am nearing that point in my journey as well, so I understand. .

 

[chim]

There is a lot of information in this thread and a lot of perceptions. Some of each are probably accurate. For me, the reality is we heat a good-sized house for $500 per year using propane. There's a furnace and a tank. Nothing else to mess with. Wifey watches the LP market and gets them to fill our tank when the price is down.

 

[ovrszd]

Well ovrszd, for a guy from the “show me state” you cannot seem to justify your perceptions with facts.

My assumption is that you have the intelligence to crank out the numbers....and after doing so found your perceptions were just that....perceptions.

Nothing wrong with whatever people want to use if it suits them. But it is offensive to dismiss what other people do as being based on “perceptions” when a reasonably intelligent person can run the numbers. The real shame is some cannot do the math and are lead astray by those with “perceptions”. If you are too old, or too lazy, or too busy to use wood....nothing wrong with that...but do not tell us it is not cost effective. I am nearing that point in my journey as well, so I understand. .

I stand by my statement that wood heat is not efficient.

I have at no time said wood heat wasn't cost effective.

I have at no time tried to convince anyone to change their ways.

You are free to verbally attack me as you wish.