Solar Panels on poss. unpermitted structure question

[jwstewar]

Sounds similar to the quote i just got today minus the generac. We got a quote for a 45 panel 17kw system. 48k for the system before any incentives, rebates and grants. 24k after all those are applied. Not sure we are going to go through with it or not but I do have another company coming out later in the week for a second quote. Will see what they say.

Including the generator (a $6200 upgrade) we are looking right at $61k, so right around $55k for the system itself. All said and done, we are looking right around $42k after credits. They are using 320-watt panels. 38 of them will be on our detached garage - facing South. 15 will be on the house. 7 Facing South, 8 facing west. This is expected to produce 66% of our power needs. I had another company out first that did an estimate basically with the same "specs" meaning 66%, it was roughly the same cost but they were only doing 35 of the 300 watt panels. They claimed they were going to save us power by putting extra insulation in the attic, giving us LED light bulbs, an aerator for the sink, blanket for the water heater, and a small solar powered attic fan about the size of a desk fan. Once I figured out their game, I told them to pound sand. Already have all LED bulbs, already have R38 in the attic, brand new touch sink faucet, and the real kicker, you can't put a blanket around a tankless water heater.

 

[Clark6x20]

I have 15,600 watts of solar that I installed 10 years ago. If there is room on your property it would be wise to avoid a roof mount system. Put it in the ground and use a simple tilt mount design it will allow you to adjust the angle of the panels a couple tiles per year to keep them at the optimal angle. It will make about a 15% increase in power production. Also a lot easier to access if you need to service the system.

-Todd

 

[Diggin It]

so right around $55k for the system itself.

At roughly $75/mo for my electric bill, that would take me about 65 years to break even.

My SOLE purpose for solar would be power when the utility grid is down, so without batteries, inverter, etc .....

 

[NorTracNY]

I used to think that also. But it's really not ridiculous, actually. Distributed power generation reduces strain on the grid, and reduces the amount and cost of future grid maintenance and upgrades. Multiple analyses have shown that increasing the amount of residential solar (to a certain point) lowers electric costs for everyone. Currently we are letting the established, fossil fuel monopolies dictate policy to our state governments using bad logic and junk science.

The quality and reliability of the power my panels are putting on the grid is not worth the wholesale the power company must pay me. Yes, if lots of people are adding power to the grid during the middle of the day in summer when demand is high, it delays the need to increase capacity for the power company, but the power company is certainly not benefiting in the end. They were forced to send out people to inspect the system, put in a new meter, and talk with me about the new account. The only one saving money in this whole deal is me. I have a guaranteed output for 20 years at a fixed, one time, upfront cost. The power company is now only making $250/yr from me instead of over $1K. They paid for a new meter to be installed and cost them about 10man hours. And the biggest people being screwed are the tax payers. They covered the vast majority of the cost. Don't fool yourself by thinking people are "saving" money by me having panels on my place.

 

[LD1]

Including the generator (a $6200 upgrade) we are looking right at $61k, so right around $55k for the system itself. All said and done, we are looking right around $42k after credits. They are using 320-watt panels. 38 of them will be on our detached garage - facing South. 15 will be on the house. 7 Facing South, 8 facing west. This is expected to produce 66% of our power needs. I had another company out first that did an estimate basically with the same "specs" meaning 66%, it was roughly the same cost but they were only doing 35 of the 300 watt panels. They claimed they were going to save us power by putting extra insulation in the attic, giving us LED light bulbs, an aerator for the sink, blanket for the water heater, and a small solar powered attic fan about the size of a desk fan. Once I figured out their game, I told them to pound sand. Already have all LED bulbs, already have R38 in the attic, brand new touch sink faucet, and the real kicker, you can't put a blanket around a tankless water heater.

So are you going forward with the install???

Off the top of my head...your going 17kw system.....making about ~2300kwh per day.....which only covers about 2/3 of your bill. So that means you must average about 3500kwh/month to use.

Not sure who your electric is through......but our rural electric gets cheaper per kwh for the more you use.

A 3500kwh bill around here would be about $350

You are still gonna have a 1200kwh bill. That would still cost ~$170

So to save $180/month..........$2160/year.......you are fronting $55k.....waiting on rebate to bring it down to $42k.......

20 year payback on a system is why I have not gotten serious about even wanting to consider solar myself.

Our electric company breaks charges into 3 categories.

A $41 charge that everyone pays regardless of whether you use 10kw or 10,000
Then a cost per kwh for generation and transmission (making power and getting it to the local sub stations)
Then a cost per kwh for local distribution

That is why the more that is used it gets cheaper. Because the more you use the cheaper the generation and transmission is per kwh......AND the more you use spreads that $41 charge out over more kwh's.....

So even if you build a system to handle 100% of your power needs, for the privilege of being tied to the grid, you still pay $41 minimum. Its great that electric companies are indeed doing net metering. But by rights they should only credit you what THEY PAY for generation and transmission. Which is why I dont see the current model being sustainable. It works for now because so few people have solar.

But at the end of the day....I simply cannot justify spending that much money for a 20year payback for a system that may or may not need expensive parts replaced over that time frame.

 

[mikester]

NY is not allowed to add assessment value to a home because of the panels. The electric company RG&E was very easy to work with. I'm not sure if they go out to you, but whoever you have will install a new two way meter for you. You'll true up once a year with them.

Thats good news. I wish our govt was more progressive that way. Right now they are sticking it to us with a carbon tax. If you add solar they stick it to you by upping your property taxes. Then they stick you again because any income generated from the panels gets added to your income taxes.

 

[LD1]

Thats good news. I wish our govt was more progressive that way. Right now they are sticking it to us with a carbon tax. If you add solar they stick it to you by upping your property taxes. Then they stick you again because any income generated from the panels gets added to your income taxes.

Should be pretty easy to write off all the income from the panels with their sheer cost, and any maintence, cleanings, parts, repairs, etc. I would think it would be a LOOONNNGGG time before one "actually" had to pay any taxes.

 

[jwstewar]

Yes, we are proceeding. AEP is our provider and our electric bill runs anywhere between $350 & $400 per month. We are expecting between $100 & $150 a month electric bill. The first 2 - 3 years I expect our monthly expense to be a wash. After that, as the electric rates continue to rise, I expect we will actually start "saving" money. While the $100-150 rate will increase, it won't have gone up as much as if we were purchasing all of our power still. Our installer has a standard 25 year parts and labor warranty. I wanted a ground mount system, but it was significantly more to go with a ground mount system. Parts and labor both goes up quite a bit.

 

[LD1]

Yes, we are proceeding. AEP is our provider and our electric bill runs anywhere between $350 & $400 per month. We are expecting between $100 & $150 a month electric bill. The first 2 - 3 years I expect our monthly expense to be a wash. After that, as the electric rates continue to rise, I expect we will actually start "saving" money. While the $100-150 rate will increase, it won't have gone up as much as if we were purchasing all of our power still. Our installer has a standard 25 year parts and labor warranty. I wanted a ground mount system, but it was significantly more to go with a ground mount system. Parts and labor both goes up quite a bit.

I'm certainly not trying to talk you out of it.

I just can't seem to make numbers work for me to invest in solar. Not at a 20yr payback on a system that hasn't proven yet to last much longer IMO.

Sure electric costs go up but that's an unknown factor.
In 10years my electric has went from about 10cents to 12cents per kwh, at my approximate average usage of 1800kwh/month

 

[Gale Hawkins]

Thanks for this interesting thread. At $500 monthly we may need to look at this someday. The EV only adds about $60 monthly.