Bush hog cat 1 pins too wide

[jaxs]

Why not install one or both longer pin in reverse position to see how it works? You are over thinking the swivel function.

 

[countrybumpkin]

Does that model have the reversible top link pivot? If so and it’s set up as in the first pic, you could reverse the pivot, then this would allow you to try swapping the lower pins and possibly the up rights inward and fully tightening them down. The pic above is set up to were a quick hitch should work, but your not using one so I’d see if you can set it up for a non quick hitch. It really should have worked either way but it is what it is.

 

[JohnnyMX]

As a guy who was a new tractor owner with the same basic cutter and same issue with the implement too close to the wheels I hear you. I added the quick attach (sort of like Pat's) to the lower lift arms to push the cutter another 4" away from the tractor. It got into the tread at one point and removed some rubber as I didn't have it tightened down to allow zero movement. When I raised it up things got scary.

I would go buy longer pins and a stack of washers or bushings, reverse the pins and be done. The frame isn't supposed to be loose where the pins go. As someone else said it rotates on the pin in the end link.

 

[Ford850]

If you can't use your lift arms at full extent without hitting your tires, then widen your tires. I'm not saying the cutter isn't partially to blame but I've never had to worry about my lift arms swinging into my tires.

 

[chas0218]

What about taking that A-frame detachable part and putting it on the inside of the fixed uprights?

Judging by the up close picture it almost looks like it was meant to go on the inside. That will get you about 1" less width.

 

[chas0218]

These might work too. It is a total length of 5" so you should be able to just put it on the inside.

CountyLine Draw Pin, Cat 2, S7219TSC at Tractor Supply Co.
CountyLine Draw Pin, Cat 1, S245TSC at Tractor Supply Co.

 

[JohnnyMX]

my comments were assuming your lift arms are adjusted out fully. The quick-hitch lower link ends added just a bit more. Never had that issue with any other implement. Mine was an old 60" King Kutter rotary.

 

[ovrszd]

Very poor design. Not having hands on the cutter, I'll just assume there are bushings on the 3pt pins for the tower to swivel on? I'm saying that because I see a gap between the angle frame and the tower yet the lock washer appears to be locked?

That tower must be loosely fastened at the pins or you have no float. The tractor 3pt arm swivels have absolutely nothing to do with implement float. Guessing those comments weren't thought thru very well.

Surprising to me how many different things are seen by different people looking at the same pics.

Only real fix is to rebuild the 3pt pin setup. Going to require a cutting torch and probably a welder. The 3pt tower isn't going to fit inside the vertical angle iron without modification. the vertical angle iron isn't going to allow turning the pins inward without modification. Not sure you can purchase 3pt pins that are long enough to allow the tractor 3pt arms to clear the vertical angle iron without modification.

Bummer.

 

[s219]

Very poor design. Not having hands on the cutter, I'll just assume there are bushings on the 3pt pins for the tower to swivel on? I'm saying that because I see a gap between the angle frame and the tower yet the lock washer appears to be locked?

That tower must be loosely fastened at the pins or you have no float. The tractor 3pt arm swivels have absolutely nothing to do with implement float. Guessing those comments weren't thought thru very well.

Surprising to me how many different things are seen by different people looking at the same pics.

Only real fix is to rebuild the 3pt pin setup. Going to require a cutting torch and probably a welder. The 3pt tower isn't going to fit inside the vertical angle iron without modification. the vertical angle iron isn't going to allow turning the pins inward without modification. Not sure you can purchase 3pt pins that are long enough to allow the tractor 3pt arms to clear the vertical angle iron without modification.

Bummer.

Those are all correct assessments, and the same conclusion I arrived at. I am going to play around with it a bit this weekend.

 

[s219]

Here's a schematic of the swivel behavior for those who can't visualize it. This motion can be simulated without even mounting on the tractor -- all the swivel action is in the linkages.



The upper mount "yoke" has to be on the outside of the angle iron uprights in order to swivel. If moved to the inside it wouldn't swivel anymore.

The current pins aren't long enough to work if flipped inward (angle iron blocks most of the pin), but I think some longer pins could work.

 

[WranglerX]

Very poor design. Not having hands on the cutter, I'll just assume there are bushings on the 3pt pins for the tower to swivel on? I'm saying that because I see a gap between the angle frame and the tower yet the lock washer appears to be locked?

That tower must be loosely fastened at the pins or you have no float. The tractor 3pt arm swivels have absolutely nothing to do with implement float. Guessing those comments weren't thought thru very well.

Surprising to me how many different things are seen by different people looking at the same pics.

Only real fix is to rebuild the 3pt pin setup. Going to require a cutting torch and probably a welder. The 3pt tower isn't going to fit inside the vertical angle iron without modification. the vertical angle iron isn't going to allow turning the pins inward without modification. Not sure you can purchase 3pt pins that are long enough to allow the tractor 3pt arms to clear the vertical angle iron without modification.

Bummer.

Exactly... That is why I earlier suggest to modify once and be happy forever...

Dale

 

[1010]

I would measure for a quick hitch and see if it would hook up to the existing cutter pins. That would take some of the stress off the lift arms being spread apart so far.
I'd check that before I started modifying. Then I'd modify it so it would fit the quick hitch better IF needed..

 

[kthompson]

I have read or reread each post here: To begin with you don't own the mower. So you are not total free to make any changes to it. Reversing the pins is by far simple, low cost and easy to undo if desired or needs to be. If you were to make a change and someone or their machine were to be injured due to the change you might be held to some level of liability. You are also taking on some level of liability from damage by debris when you are mowing for the Association. Have not seen any mention of anyone else doing any mowing for them, if so talk with them about how their tractor is hooking up to it.

This part is opinion based upon the pictures you posted and how I "understand" them. To me this is poor designed hitch on this mower or it is assembled wrong. The mower needs to be able to tilt as the rear wheel travels up and over high dirt or stump or tractor rear wheel drops into a low area. "IF" they are counting on the third arm mount point to "swivel" then the bolts can not be tight unless they have some sort of bearing or bushing that linkage for the linkage to pivot on. I don't see any sign of that. A tight bolt should not be allowing easy swivel or as I prefer pivoting of the linkage. For bolts to work that way with no bearings for them to tighten against then you do not use lock washers and you must have either a jam nut or a locking nut and not a single regular nut to prevent the bolts from coming lose and yet have the slack needed to pivot.

The lowest cost way to ME on this: verify the mower is assembled correctly. It is not impossible this is not the assembly for this model mower. To get the pivot or swivel the mower needs it needs to be in-front of the third arm post on the mower. The yoke they have there bolted to the long pieces of metal running to the back of the mower for lifting to me should what the third arm pins to. I think those braces currently bolted to it should connect fixed to the mount itself. The yoke would not bolt but pin to the other hole for totally free pivoting or swiveling as the mower rises and drops as it travels. If you will look around that is the design of many many of the rear mowers both finish and rough cut mower. NOT the easy work around at no cost: disconnect your third arm when you go to use it but know you can not use the lift to get the rear wheel off the ground. I have also seen a chain used for the third arm for same reason as it will lift the mower and still allow for free movement needed as it travels on unlevel ground.

The lift pin width is being made way too complicated. Get long replacement pins. Simple, low cost and works. If you will pay attention it is not unusual to find lift pins on the inside of the arms. I have some cat 1 and cat 2 implements that way. As have been mentioned there is really no firm industry standard on the width that MUST be held. Would say a recommendation at best. As you look at older implements the width can vary a good bit. There is also one other way to handle the width issue without cutting the current mount, have another lug welded on the mower to slip a pin throw both and the lift arm. This set up is rather common on cat 2 implements.

 

[chas0218]

In all honesty when I used to mow the vineyards we used a chain as our top link as the rotating 3 point assembly usually rust welded itself and wouldn't pivot.

I posted above some pins that should work to get out and around the braces just make sure you add some spacers so your 3 point arms don't bind against the mount.

 

[CobyRupert]

If you can't use your lift arms at full extent without hitting your tires, then widen your tires. I'm not saying the cutter isn't partially to blame but I've never had to worry about my lift arms swinging into my tires.

After further study:
If you can't find pins long enough to reverse pin direction, or
If you can't put yoke on inside of lower angle iron because angle iron wouldn't allow yoke to swivel,
then I agree with Ford850.
Otherwise major rework of the mower mount would be required.

TSC should take some responsibility if they are selling /claiming this is a Class I hitch and it isn't. Is it?
There are international standards (and an organization: ISO).

I believe pages 8 & 9 of attached below says the center to center measurement between the lift arms of a Class I hitch should be l(1) +l(1), or 359mm + 359mm, or 14.13" + 14.13"= 28.3".

View attachment ISO 730 - 3 Point Linkage.pdf

 

[ovrszd]

I have read or reread each post here: To begin with you don't own the mower. So you are not total free to make any changes to it. Reversing the pins is by far simple, low cost and easy to undo if desired or needs to be. If you were to make a change and someone or their machine were to be injured due to the change you might be held to some level of liability. You are also taking on some level of liability from damage by debris when you are mowing for the Association. Have not seen any mention of anyone else doing any mowing for them, if so talk with them about how their tractor is hooking up to it.

This part is opinion based upon the pictures you posted and how I "understand" them. To me this is poor designed hitch on this mower or it is assembled wrong. The mower needs to be able to tilt as the rear wheel travels up and over high dirt or stump or tractor rear wheel drops into a low area. "IF" they are counting on the third arm mount point to "swivel" then the bolts can not be tight unless they have some sort of bearing or bushing that linkage for the linkage to pivot on. I don't see any sign of that. A tight bolt should not be allowing easy swivel or as I prefer pivoting of the linkage. For bolts to work that way with no bearings for them to tighten against then you do not use lock washers and you must have either a jam nut or a locking nut and not a single regular nut to prevent the bolts from coming lose and yet have the slack needed to pivot.

The lowest cost way to ME on this: verify the mower is assembled correctly. It is not impossible this is not the assembly for this model mower. To get the pivot or swivel the mower needs it needs to be in-front of the third arm post on the mower. The yoke they have there bolted to the long pieces of metal running to the back of the mower for lifting to me should what the third arm pins to. I think those braces currently bolted to it should connect fixed to the mount itself. The yoke would not bolt but pin to the other hole for totally free pivoting or swiveling as the mower rises and drops as it travels. If you will look around that is the design of many many of the rear mowers both finish and rough cut mower. NOT the easy work around at no cost: disconnect your third arm when you go to use it but know you can not use the lift to get the rear wheel off the ground. I have also seen a chain used for the third arm for same reason as it will lift the mower and still allow for free movement needed as it travels on unlevel ground.

The lift pin width is being made way too complicated. Get long replacement pins. Simple, low cost and works. If you will pay attention it is not unusual to find lift pins on the inside of the arms. I have some cat 1 and cat 2 implements that way. As have been mentioned there is really no firm industry standard on the width that MUST be held. Would say a recommendation at best. As you look at older implements the width can vary a good bit. There is also one other way to handle the width issue without cutting the current mount, have another lug welded on the mower to slip a pin throw both and the lift arm. This set up is rather common on cat 2 implements.

Study the pics again. It's assembled as intended when built. It has the ability for the tower to swivel in it's design.

The only problem is the pin spread is more than his particular tractor is setup for. If this problem is resolved by reversing the pins you will need to find pins that are extremely long. Long enough to clear the vertical angle iron with enough pin left to fit his 3pt arm swivel. And the threaded portion has to be long enough to capture the vertical angle iron plus the tower and have long enough threaded area to include the swivel bushing, lock washer and a full nut on the threads. Might be hard to find. And will apply a LOT of leverage against the vertical angle iron because of the distance to the 3pt arms.

 

[ovrszd]

In all honesty when I used to mow the vineyards we used a chain as our top link as the rotating 3 point assembly usually rust welded itself and wouldn't pivot.

I posted above some pins that should work to get out and around the braces just make sure you add some spacers so your 3 point arms don't bind against the mount.

The threaded portion of those pins would need to be long enough to move the shoulder the distance of the angle iron spread. Don't think that will happen with those pins. If you stack washers on the threads until the shoulder is out to the edge of the angle iron you are going to need 3.5"-4.5" of threads.

 

[s219]

I am sure it is assembled right and consistent with photos. And the floating swivel behavior of the linkages works too. I have seen it swivel while ferrying the mower around and it can be done by hand by pushing/pulling on the yoke when the mower is not mounted on the tractor. The various pins are bolts with bushings to allow this behavior.

Unfortunately, it seems to have been an afterthought or not properly planned into the design. They really needed to put the vertical angle iron posts a bit closer together if they were going to bolt the top yoke piece to the outside and push the pins farther apart. Or use a different type of post that would allow reversed pins to work and allow swiveling with the pins reversed.

I can't believe the manual suggests reversing the pins as a solution to this problem. That would hide 60% of the pin behind the angle iron and not leave enough exposed pin to be of any use.

My best approach now is to look for longer pins that can be reversed, but make sure that doesn't put too much bending leverage on the posts. I could weld a tab or ear onto the posts to alleviate that, and it wouldn't compromise anything.

Because of the angle iron, using longer reversed pins will take me from being 1-2" wider than cat 1, to 3-4" narrower than cat 1. Stupid.

 

[CobyRupert]

Here's 2 more cents:
Not all lift arms are equal. Some are straight, and some have an offset/bend so they are narrower at the tire rub length and wider at their ends.

What's the current pin to pin (center point to center point) distance on the mower?

 

[Ford850]

Maybe someone already suggested this, but have you looked at the non-shoulder, double nut style pins? Some of those have a shorter usable pin area because of the threads. It looks like you have plenty of extra pin length on the current pins, so another style might gain you a half inch or so per side.